First Arena

[MsKreed 1,178]

16 hours ago, Chris said:

And to say they’re hopeful the county can get on board, support, or whatever? Shouldn’t be too hard since Margeson chairs both the legislature and the CCIDA 

It seems like back when Sonsire was streaming meetings, she was on the CCIDA board and abstained from certain votes that involved the CCIDA. It never occurred to me.....but now I almost want to research and see how often other Legislators who sit on the CCIDA abstained from voting to throw money at the CCIDA.

EDIT:  A quick search of past Legislature meetings, Strange and Sonsire both did vote on CCIDA funding.  So, I guess I'm recalling some other organizations that where she recused herself due to perceived conflict of being on a Board.  Maybe Cooperative Extension or something like that 

Which still makes me question whether Legislators should ever be voting on Resolutions that benefit any Board they sit on, or when it becomes a conflict?

 

16 hours ago, Chris said:

Let’s see how many millions of dollars they can waste on it for a couple hundred hockey fans and families before it gets through their heads that this is not a hockey town.

Amen!

Is Youth Hockey a valuable pastime? Yes - absolutely.

But it certainly is not the only sport or recreational activity that Chemung County parents choose to involve their kids in....and not the only sport/activity that has facilities in the county that have struggled. 

We have a skating rink and three bowling alleys that have always been expected to pay taxes and pay for their own maintenance and operating costs. As those expenses and maintenance costs have risen over the years, those facilities suffered in silence without stealing Casella grants or ARP funds. 

 

 

Edited June 10, 2023 by MsKreed

[Chris 2,161]

Ok, so since it’s obvious the county wants to ignore the wishes of the majority of the people and their opinions, it’s a forgone conclusion that they are gonna steamroll ahead and go into the business of running an arena.

So the question is, what can they do in order to perhaps make it a profitable and successful endeavor for a change?

[MsKreed 1,178]

 

8 minutes ago, Chris said:

Ok, so since it’s obvious the county wants to ignore the wishes of the majority of the people and their opinions, it’s a forgone conclusion that they are gonna steamroll ahead and go into the business of running an arena.

So the question is, what can they do in order to perhaps make it a profitable and successful endeavor for a change?

I think there is a certain number of people who don't care at all whether or not it even is a profitable and successful endeavor.  

 

I don't know who the new "diverse" group of advisors that Margeson mentioned will be. But the idea of a appointing a group of"experts" from varying backgrounds of expertise to  collaborate on Arena plan is not new. We did this the first time the place failed. 

January 3, 2006

Lucky for us that these bastions of the business world were there to right the ship before it became a burden.  The Legislature ought to issue a Proclamation to Honor these guys for rescuing the Arena. Many of them are still "moving and shaking" in Chemung County and some have advanced to higher aspirations, new titles and positions. 

[MsKreed 1,178]

On 6/10/2023 at 2:27 PM, MsKreed said:

EDIT:  A quick search of past Legislature meetings, Strange and Sonsire both did vote on CCIDA funding.  So, I guess I'm recalling some other organizations that where she recused herself due to perceived conflict of being on a Board.  Maybe Cooperative Extension or something like that 

Which still makes me question whether Legislators should ever be voting on Resolutions that benefit any Board they sit on, or when it becomes a conflict?

I guess I'm not the only person who has pondered this.....

The NYS Senate passed  BILL NUMBER: S1716 (HERE) in May, and it's been sent to the Assembly  (Bill A255 HERE)

Quote

SUMMARY OF PROVISIONS: Section 1: Repeals the existing subdivision 4 of section 856 of the general municipal law which deals with elected officials serving as members of IDA boards and replaces it with a new subdivision 4 that

prohibits any elected official serving at the county, town, city, or village level from serving as member of the board of any industrial development agency (IDA) located within the county. Any IDA board member who would now be ineligible to serve may serve until the expiration of his or her term as a member of the IDA, at which time new board members must be selected using the existing process established by each IDA. The enabling legislation for certain county and municipal IDAs specifically requires certain elected positions to be represented on the IDA's board. This bill would not apply to any elected officials required by the terms of the enabling legislation for a particular IDA to serve on the board of that IDA. Section 2: Sets Effective Date.   JUSTIFICATION: Each year, local industrial development agencies grant millions of dollars of financial assistance in the form of tax incentives, payment in lieu of taxes (PILOT) agreements, and others, to projects seeking assistance. The members of IDA boards make decisions on which projects will receive assistance and how much assistance to offer. Allowing elected officials to serve as IDA board members opens obvious opportu- nities for corruption and conflicts of interest. For instance, a company (or its officers) seeking financial assistance from a county or munici- pal IDA could contribute to the campaign of an elected official who serves on the IDA board and that elected official could then vote to confer millions of dollars in taxpayer incentives on the company. Despite this clear potential for corruption, elected officials currently serve on IDA boards all around the state, making this bill a vitally needed anti-corruption measure.

 

[JustAGuy 12]

On 6/11/2023 at 10:12 AM, MsKreed said:

 

I think there is a certain number of people who don't care at all whether or not it even is a profitable and successful endeavor.  

 

I don't know who the new "diverse" group of advisors that Margeson mentioned will be. But the idea of a appointing a group of"experts" from varying backgrounds of expertise to  collaborate on Arena plan is not new. We did this the first time the place failed. 

January 3, 2006

Lucky for us that these bastions of the business world were there to right the ship before it became a burden.  The Legislature ought to issue a Proclamation to Honor these guys for rescuing the Arena. Many of them are still "moving and shaking" in Chemung County and some have advanced to higher aspirations, new titles and positions. 

Are any of these people still on this said board? Does it still exist???

Nice to see old man Santulli was on it. The guy quoted as saying the county doesn't wanna be in the arena business? Yet he was directly connected to the arena power structure. No conflict of interests there.

Hmm....Tom Freeman. The guy they later gave the arena to then he gave it back? Not a rocket there at all.....

Haha I can't help but laugh that the ultimate sellout Johnny Pothead Jr was on there though. He sure made out with the sale of that company. 

That board is all snakes all the time though. 

[MsKreed 1,178]

5 minutes ago, JustAGuy said:

Are any of these people still on this said board? Does it still exist???

I'm sure it disbanded at some point (probably when the IDA "purchased" the Arena several years later, largely with huge chunks of taxpayer funds).

6 minutes ago, JustAGuy said:

That board is all snakes all the time though. 

And I expect whatever "new" board of experts that Margeson mentioned in the interview will be a similar crowd....adding in a few out of town parasites.

Public Comments can be made at the beginning of tonight's Legislature Meeting:

 

[JustAGuy 12]

The government doesn't care about you or what you want. They give you social programs as breadcrumbs to keep the dumbed down masses quiet. This is also why they give you entertainment like the arena, sports and music and blah blah blah. So we all know the arena pays no taxes. Do any of these people sitting on said board? Do the politicians? I'd bet no no no and no. If they do probably not as much as they should....

A serious question for the masses is why do you play ball? It's bad enough they have us in the slave force spending most of our waking time doing something we wouldn't want to do if we weren't paid just enough to continue. But why pay taxes? If the whole community decides this year not to pay taxes they wouldn't do shitttttt. Why? Because there are more of us than there are them. They know this at the state, national and global levels. This is why they always keep us divided. The easiest way to divide apopulous is by race and gender though. But they still can do it with little things they call politics. Here in little Elmira an arena is a big divisive thing. I think everyone could agree if we could make it work it would be beneficial. But we can't make it work. Not that the local government isn't intentionally making that happen or anything. But they are reaping the benefits of the ruins it's been. Dudes owning businesses or being say Santulli getting to sit on an advisory board overseeing it all. I wonder why Santulli botched the alleged arena deal of 2017. He was old as dirt by then and heading out the floor but what did he stand to gain? When he retired did he get to keep his post or was it shifted over to Chris Moss? 

 

[Chris 2,161]

Let’s leave the insults and all that for Facebook and get this conversation back on track.

Since this situation is fait accompli, what can they do to make it a successful endeavor going forward?

[LocalSportsGuy 43]

 

1 hour ago, Chris said:

 what can they do to make it a successful endeavor going forward?

Well I think the best thing the IDA and the county can do is just be honest with the people. Be upfront, be accountable, and just tell us what's going on. The people should know what's going on if their tax dollars are going toward operating the place. 

[Chris 2,161]

29 minutes ago, LocalSportsGuy said:

Well I think the best thing the IDA and the county can do is just be honest with the people. Be upfront, be accountable, and just tell us what's going on. The people should know what's going on if their tax dollars are going toward operating the place.

I absolutely couldn't agree more and that would be both a great first step as well as a refreshing change of pace when it comes to the Arena. 

But what kind of events would everyone like to see there, that would generate the revenue that place should be?

[Chris 2,161]

I recall a comic con that Jared from the comic shop had there, and it was a great one. Lots of people in attendance, lots of vendors, etc. It was a great time. 

Maybe work with local groups and hold festivals indoors. An indoor Italian Festival, Irish Festival, etc. 

[LocalSportsGuy 43]

48 minutes ago, Chris said:

I absolutely couldn't agree more and that would be both a great first step as well as a refreshing change of pace when it comes to the Arena. 

But what kind of events would everyone like to see there, that would generate the revenue that place should be?

You don't always need to swing for the fences just getting even a one hit wonder band in would probably sell. Even though "The L" is sketchy with how they run as a business, they still get some impressive acts and always have something going on. 

 

34 minutes ago, Chris said:

I recall a comic con that Jared from the comic shop had there, and it was a great one. Lots of people in attendance, lots of vendors, etc. It was a great time. 

Maybe work with local groups and hold festivals indoors. An indoor Italian Festival, Irish Festival, etc. 

This is a fantastic idea. I love the idea of more community orientated events. 

[Adam 373]

along the idea of comic-con would be to see if there are vintage toy dealers etc to set up along with the comic( or separate if enough sign on). maybe a swap meet for bikes, cars, off road etc as individual affairs. perhaps it would also be a good place to hold craft vending( not direct marketing) for local crafts-people, small farms and so on, particularly since the ag building at fairgrounds isnt even on paper yet why not put a current spot to good use?

hold a competition of sorts for local restaurants to showcase new or signature dishes could also double as a recruitment venue for employees?

[MsKreed 1,178]

4 hours ago, LocalSportsGuy said:

Well I think the best thing the IDA and the county can do is just be honest with the people. Be upfront, be accountable, and just tell us what's going on. The people should know what's going on if their tax dollars are going toward operating the place. 

Unfortunately, it seems that transparency is not something they are offering voluntarily. 

From when the Donner deal was first announced in November 2021, the IDA's clandestine deal with Donner was kept from the public until it was signed. This is in violation of State Law: the final meeting was "accidentally" not recorded, but there was no explanation for why no previous meeting minutes or recordings ever mentioned the deal either. (See pages 2-4 of this topic for links and references to that). 

 At this point, the only way for the people to find out what's happening behind the IDA's doors will be if the media diligently pursues answers, and submits FOIL requests for information that is not willingly being shared.......liek Nick Dubina did when City officials refused to discuss why the Chief was fired. 

And can someone do a welfare check on Mike Tadross?  One of the big selling points of this deal was that he was the" Hollywood producer" who was going to bring entertainment in......but he mysteriously disappeared by the time teh IDA finalized teh lease with Donner. 

[LocalSportsGuy 43]

37 minutes ago, MsKreed said:

 

And can someone do a welfare check on Mike Tadross?  One of the big selling points of this deal was that he was the" Hollywood producer" who was going to bring entertainment in......but he mysteriously disappeared by the time teh IDA finalized teh lease with Donner. 

Never forget when they said they were gonna bring in Jon Lovitz. No lie I was going to start standing out the arena with a poster that said Where's Jon Lovitz? 

[Chris 2,161]

Did Frank Stallone ever come? I honestly don’t remember.

[Chris 2,161]

9 hours ago, Adam said:

along the idea of comic-con would be to see if there are vintage toy dealers etc to set up along with the comic( or separate if enough sign on).

The con I reference previously did just that. There was a vendor from Syracuse there that I bought some great items from. It even got me to stop by their store the next time we were up that way.

I think they were the business that organized or put in that Salt City Collectible con, but don’t remember for sure.

I’d piggy back both comics and vintage toys to get a wider draw, but vintage toys bring people from all over as it is, if you have enough vendors to make it worthwhile.

[JustAGuy 12]

It's funny to me how hush hush this truly all is. So the IDA is putting together a management team(this eludes to the management team not necessarily existing) leaving the question are they involved and forming it directly? I feel like it's just a really cute spin on recycling old things. There is a part of me that feels for Dnner if the rumors are true that when he got in the equipment abs arena was in poor condition. Although Robbie Nichols made the same type of claims. So either there is some validity or everyone just recycles the same scam. 

The IDA expecting every new tenant to pay everything for them but have the means to make all the repairs necessary is quite an absurd demand. It's as dumb as them saying....anyone who buys this joint has to pay for all the debt racked up by Freeman and Afr and whoever else ran the Jackals years after Freeman. Maybe Robbie Nichols was right that it's all politics I wouldn't deny that idea. I have no idea what these people really want. 

[JustAGuy 12]

On 6/12/2023 at 10:48 PM, LocalSportsGuy said:

Never forget when they said they were gonna bring in Jon Lovitz. No lie I was going to start standing out the arena with a poster that said Where's Jon Lovitz? 

Jon Lovitz is nothing worth seeing but I guess the original attempt was more than Roberto Nichols ever dd. The Freeman years brought in squat and whoever else owned before that. The beginning years they brought some stuff in initially then it basically all stopped. I don't count free graduations for CCC and Chemung county high schools as entertainment. Donner did at least bring in lacrosse. Maybe basketball is the ticket but the welfare bulldogs were a criminal enterprise franchise that nobody wanted to go to the ghetto Southside YMCA to see play. 

[JustAGuy 12]

On 6/12/2023 at 4:54 PM, LocalSportsGuy said:

 

Well I think the best thing the IDA and the county can do is just be honest with the people. Be upfront, be accountable, and just tell us what's going on. The people should know what's going on if their tax dollars are going toward operating the place. 

A government will never be transparent with you. Especially if being transparent does them no favors. If our tax dollars have ever been going to this place then it's an epic failure. If the equipment doesn't work. Even if you get a guy like Donner who is probably a multi millionsire(I believe he was one time a part owner of the Rochester Americans and Knighthawks) if you have to pump a few hundred thousand to make the arena operable then pay for utilities you won't even last. Sounds like he got screwed a bit. Even if he's lying the ice equipment down there has been shit for well over a solid decade. Not to mention the ice itself had that ring issue in like 2009 or 2010. The ice never looked the same. The only thing I can see them doing is trying to sucker money out of the public. I'm surprised they backed out on bulldozing the place. I wonder what changed that course. Bulldozing would be a mafia style move and every criminal hand would get out of this. They must get a tax write off on this joint. It's never profited it's the only reason why I could think they don't wanna tear it down in the end. Not sure this county has much to write off anymore with all the old empty unoccupied buildings downtown. 

[JustAGuy 12]

On 6/12/2023 at 6:16 PM, LocalSportsGuy said:

You don't always need to swing for the fences just getting even a one hit wonder band in would probably sell. Even though "The L" is sketchy with how they run as a business, they still get some impressive acts and always have something going on. 

 

This is a fantastic idea. I love the idea of more community orientated events. 

The L is def another shady operation. They don't pay taxes or didn't for months? Now I think within the last couple of months they think they have the right to tell folks where they can and can't park create a reason but won'tjust be honest that they need more revenue from things like parking. Although they have zero right to make a demand that nobody park in said area. That's up to much higher powers. The idea itself might be an alright concept but it is interesting how they just got up and running in an old church to have a venue like that. I'm not sure what kinds of bands they have there outside of this country stuff. But I'm not a music follower anyways truthfully for the most part. 

[MsKreed 1,178]

The public has been told that CCIDA is comprised of “smart” and “effective” and “capable” people.  In fact, they have been granted so much influence, that we should assume that the judgement and business acumen of those few individuals is superior to the entire rest of the county.....combined.  

We’ve also been told (by the brain trust mentioned above) that both Nichols/CAN-USA and Tadross-Donner/Mammoth were “smart” and “effective” and “capable” business people before the CCIDA entered into leases with them.

If that were true, then these tenants would have been aware of the condition of the Arena, the costs involved in rehabbing it to run successfully. Any “capable” businessperson understands startup and operating costs and does research to determine that projected revenue will cover those costs.

 

I’m not sure which business decision would be considered more foolish and incompetent.

A Tenant signing a lease without bothering to find out any details or cost projections on a multimillion dollar endeavor?

Or a Landlord actually believing that anyone could be successful at multimillion dollar endeavor....without bothering to find out any details or cost projections?

[Hal 341]

I see all the “ movers and shakers “ listed but not one … not one John Q ordinary Taxpayer listed … as per usual ! Maybe , just maybe if there were less upper crust , there could be more trust . But hell that will never happen ! 

[Chris 2,161]

"Less 'upper crust' = more public trust," would be a great slogan. Just sayin'

 

[MsKreed 1,178]

I wonder when we will hear whether the "New Team" Margeson mentioned will have any more actual community members than the above listed "Community" Advisory Board named in 2006 (heluva job they did, huh?).

From the the way he spoke of it, I'm sort of expecting the same....but fewer movers and shakers from this area.  Someone with connections to the Bills and Sabers was referenced, as well as an "entertainment" expert (maybe someone located Tadross?? LOL).