First Arena

[Adam 373]

i guess, in light of that info, being that there are two members of the Legislature on the Board, as well as Mr. Roman and Ms. Burlew( both Supervisors of municipalities i believe), where is the accountability to tax payers that do ultimately fund this entity?

it appears to many of us that the IDA operates as if answerable to no one but themselves and given the situations with the last two tenants of that building accountability and even replacement of members is long overdue

 

[MsKreed 1,178]

Thank you @Lawana Morse

I truly hope that the IDA provide the transparency and accountability that we all expect and deserve.  Including a past accounting of their use of taxpayer money to give the Legislature and the public a full context. 

Okay, we can all agree that the misguided decision to “invest” $1.25 million into the (then) “City of Elmira’s” hockey arena was made by county Legislators who have all since ‘left the building’.  Even in 1999, that decision was not without controversy (I believe a 10-5 vote).

However, a number of our current legislators were in office by the time the last "private" owner (current Aviation Director, Tom Freeman) occupied the Arena.

All of the Legislators who have currently held four or more terms of office voted for a 25yr commitment (2014 – 2039) to provide $103,000/yr of Room Tax Revenue to the IDA for the Arena....as well as in 2016 when the IDA made the decision to “assume temporary ownership” of the Arena and the Legislature voted to also funnel $1 million in Casella funds to the IDA’s acquisition of the Arena.   

(That 25yr Room Tax commitment makes one wonder just how “temporary” the arrangement was intended to be. We’re 10 years [over $1 million] into it with another 15 years [1.5 million] to go.) 

And in the last 2 years... the $875k in ARP funds.

I can’t be certain that other county tax money hasn’t been spent (it’s quite likely I’m unaware of some). But those I’ve noted amount to over $2.9 million paid to the IDA in last 7 years.....and another $1.5 million committed through 2039.

Room tax (2014-2024) $103,000x 10yrs:  $1.03 million

Casella funds (June 2016): $1 million

ARP funds: $875,000

Still promised, Room tax (2025-2039) $103,000x 15yrs: $1.545 million

 

And then there is whatever Donner may or may not have deposited into that wonderful “capital” account that the latest (Nov 2021) IDA lease required. That agreement was made under the current IDA leadership – no passing the buck to “past actors” who mismanaged the situation.

That provision “guaranteed” a minimum of $125k per year from Arena revenues (with promises that it would likely be at least twice that amount). How much had Donner put into that ‘kitty’ in the 20 months before the lease was terminated? And where is that money? If that amount is anything less that a quarter million dollars....can we have some explanation from Margeson/Roman why they abjectly failed to hold Donner to that agreement (and some justification on why/how we should trust them now?

 

[Adam 373]

Not sure if right topic to post this but: A genuine thanks to Legislator Morse for engaging on this site, there are 2-3 others i have had good interactions with, but it would be nice to have more of them, as well as the management team, using this site to engage various people seeing how it is much more drama free rather than the book

[Lawana Morse 55]

On 11/29/2023 at 11:19 PM, Adam said:

i guess, in light of that info, being that there are two members of the Legislature on the Board, as well as Mr. Roman and Ms. Burlew( both Supervisors of municipalities i believe), where is the accountability to tax payers that do ultimately fund this entity?

it appears to many of us that the IDA operates as if answerable to no one but themselves and given the situations with the last two tenants of that building accountability and even replacement of members is long overdue

 

A side note related to this, there has been a bill that keeps trying to go round at state level to stop elected officials from holding a place on the IDA boards. 

Legislator Chalk spoke to me a few meetings ago and told me that he specifically asked to be on the IDA board because he too was concerned with the amount of time the meeting went to executive session and because he has a desire for the transparency to be there. There are a few members of that board that are new as of 2023. I believe they are seeking the greater transarency, accountability, and to make positive changes, but it is slow going. It is not easy to come onto a board and implement changes. It takes some time. The frustration on the public side is the lack of communication. If the new members would just say "hey, this is what changes I'm working towards and this is what is being accomplished" it would go a long way to create some trust from the public ESPECIALLY when the prior leadship of an organization has caused a lot of mistrust. 

 

[Lawana Morse 55]

17 hours ago, Adam said:

Not sure if right topic to post this but: A genuine thanks to Legislator Morse for engaging on this site, there are 2-3 others i have had good interactions with, but it would be nice to have more of them, as well as the management team, using this site to engage various people seeing how it is much more drama free rather than the book

That's the only thing I can promise, to listen and to engage as much as I can. Everyone I talk to has something different that they are passionate about and would like to have someone address that topic. It does get overwhemling trying to sort through all the input and figuring out what to put at the front of the line to advocate for. But as long as ya'll are patient and respectful, even when you disagree, I will continue to engage to the best of my ability. 

[Chris 2,161]

1 hour ago, Lawana Morse said:

But as long as ya'll are patient and respectful, even when you disagree, I will continue to engage to the best of my ability. 

Thats the entire point of this site from its very conception 10 years ago. It’s not a “safe space” in terms of being free from disagreement ( trust me, they call me out when I’m wrong too LOL ) but the conversation is always respectful. I’ve always likened it to all of us hanging out in someone’s living room.

[Chris 2,161]

Looks like they're gonna try something somewhat new in March.

[Adam 373]

On 1/12/2024 at 9:14 AM, Chris said:

Looks like they're gonna try something somewhat new in March.

Quote

"People have to be patient,” said Kramarik. “We have to make money as we go along. This is not funded by anything else but the IDA. It’s not any taxpayer money."

well Bobby i think after 30 years of "be patient, it will succeed" and failing to do so; we have been plenty patient. and i seem to remember at least 800k being transferred from County coffers to the IDA to be used for arena expenses just in the last 3 years or so...

Quote

"Coming up on February 18 is a Cabin Fever Carnival. It’s a family friendly event for children and their families with inflatables...."

hhmmm those inflatables wouldnt happen to be supplied by Bobby-K entertainment would they?

of course we have to be patient just a while longer, theres a new hog at the trough and we gotta let him get his taste before moving on like the rest.

Quote

“We’re not out of the woods yet, simply because there are a lot of naysayers out there who are going to continue to talk about it.”

Nay-sayers, really?! Joe Roman needs to ran out on a rail

[MsKreed 1,178]

I love the idea of Alive After 5. It's a wonderful event that has been benefitting downtown for years.

But I don't see that hosting it at the Arena "adds" any traffic or revenue. 

 

It's jaw-dropping to me that, after whatever sales pitch he gave to convinces the skeptical legislators to give the Arena another shot of cash.....Margeson continues to insult the taxpayers and lay "blame" on them if his sales pitch doesn't deliver:

Quote

“We’re not out of the woods yet, simply because there are a lot of naysayers out there who are going to continue to talk about it.”

The truth is......we're not "out of the woods" because the facility has yet to offer events that fill the 3,784 seats that the Arena has. 

“As far as hockey itself, we’ve been doing quite well,” said Margeson. “Attendance is between 1,200 to 1,400." ...... That's a whopping one-third capacity. When attendance starts hovering at 80%, get back to me an we can discuss what it means to be 'doing quite well'. 

 

11 hours ago, Adam said:

"Coming up on February 18 is a Cabin Fever Carnival. It’s a family friendly event for children and their families with inflatables...."

hhmmm those inflatables wouldnt happen to be supplied by Bobby-K entertainment would they?

That's an excellent question. I'd like to hear Margeson and Roman publicly answer the question of whether the arena’s new Marketing & Sales Director is hiring his own company to provide services. 

And frankly, for as hard as they are pounding the table to defend operations, I'm beginning to get suspicious that they may be somehow drawing some profit from the IDA/Arena themselves. For instance, is the IDA allowed to be "self funding", or does it need to carry commercial property and liability on the Arena? And, if so, what insurance agency handles that?

[Hal 341]

12 hours ago, Adam said:

simply because there are a lot of naysayers out there who are going to continue to talk about it.”

Yep , I am a “ Naysayer ! Also a “ Taxpayer “ in my own mind at least , so I have skin in the game with this First boondoggle Arena that we the County taxpayers got Stuck With many years ago ! 

WTH … “ its not any taxpayer money”? Ultimately just where does Any IDA Monies come from ? Federal , State, County , pick one , It’s All “ taxpayer money! 
Cabin Fever Carnival … dollars to donuts that will be a Free event ! 

Look, some great events have taken place at the Arena … In the past ! But that idea mine has played out over the years ! Combined with lack of safe , clean and secure parking , other than the decaying structure of a parking garage where the Cities homeless “ park “ their butts … and shopping carts , the Arenas time to shine has come and gone ! 

So many locals have fronted some great ideas utilizing the Fairgrounds, why are we not being listened to? Because we are only of  no use ( except in election cycles) to most of the Movers and Shakers of the area who seem , over the years, to have had a firm grip on their Positions in politics and the committees that make decisions for us “ Naysayers “ . 

[Chris 2,161]

Oh, we all know this area is no stranger to graft. And it's been rampant since they broke ground for that damned place. That's all I'll say about that. 

As for "naysayers", well Mark, those people have been ignored since, again, they broke ground for the arena. And they've been correct. 

[TTL News 308]

Quote

 

ELMIRA, N.Y. (WENY) -- Chemung County Executive Christopher Moss released a statement on Facebook, asking the Chemung County Industrial Development Agency to be more transparent about their role in financially supporting First Arena in Elmira. 

Moss and IDA Chairman Mark Margeson said First Arena is currently being operating the Chemung County Capital Resource Association, a subsidiary of the Chemung County IDA.  

They said the IDA has been giving thousands of dollars to the CCCRA to keep First Arena open. But Moss said he wants to know why the IDA is discussing issues regarding First Arena in private meetings and not giving the public a chance to hear about the facility’s status. 

“Look, if we want people to support the arena because we’re not getting enough fan base there...that monthly IDA meeting ought to be giving out public information: this is how many people went through the doors, this is what it cost us,” Moss said.  

 

Read more here.

[Hal 341]

So this “ CCCRA “ is basically a hedge Corporation for the CCIDA ?! Or would that be a Shill Corporation … 

[Chris 2,161]

He’s not wrong, but…

[KarenK 383]

Honestly, the more I read about Mr Moss the less impressed I am.  Other factors aside, the Arena seems to be doing what they said they are going to do and bring in events, concerts, activities etc.  This other "corp" is not new.  

I feel like no matter what they do or try to do he is not going to be happy unless he is in charge and that's really the issue here.

[Adam 373]

1 minute ago, KarenK said:

Honestly, the more I read about Mr Moss the less impressed I am.  Other factors aside, the Arena seems to be doing what they said they are going to do and bring in events, concerts, activities etc.  This other "corp" is not new.  

I feel like no matter what they do or try to do he is not going to be happy unless he is in charge and that's really the issue here.

issue is, Mr. Margeson is following past actions and using exec session contrary to OML(open meetings Law). "personnel issues" is too broad and is NOT included in OML and frankly "future business" is nowhere near a legitimate reason. We have a right to know where every penny is going particularly relating to the Arena. If Moss was serious about the issue, he would enact an executive inquiry into the past 5 years( give or take) of IDA expenditures and release the findings OFFICIALLY instead of a FB post.

If the Arena is seeing "success" then there should be no problems being open about moneys spent thus far and spending no more money on the place

[MsKreed 1,178]

11 hours ago, Adam said:

If the Arena is seeing "success" then there should be no problems being open about moneys spent thus far and spending no more money on the place

This. 

I realize that Moss has no room to criticize anyone else's motives or lack of transparency.......but two wrongs do not make a right. His bad behavior doesn't give the CCIDA license to act shady.

And they have been (and continue to be) acting shady. 

After Nichol's was evicted, they (rightly) took no blame for his stint as a tenant and made it clear that his deal was signed by "old" IDA leadership.

Well, that dog don't hunt no more.  The terminated Donner (and Tadross**) deal was all them. The deal was all done in secret (violating OML law)....and the deal was a complete failure.

 

And decisions they make now are still happening in secret. And, on top of the ongoing (bond and room tax) taxpayer funding that the previous IDA leadership was getting while CAN-USA was renting....the “new” leadership has been getting additional taxpayer funding.

If they feel their superior leadership is worthy of our “investment” (new money, as well as old/ongoing funding), then they should be inviting the investors to fully witness their meetings and showing them the books.

If they are proud of their decisions. If they are satisfied with the progress. If they are doing great works and not misusing Taxpayer funds.  Then I’d expect them to want to make sure we know that and be more transparent than the law requires, instead of hiding every discussion.

Edited March 14 by MsKreed

[Chris 2,161]

23 minutes ago, MsKreed said:

...then they should be inviting the investors to fully witness their meetings and showing them the books.

Are you kidding? They still "can't fix" the issue which has kept meetings from being live streamed for the past four months. One can only assume that transperancy isn't a high priority for Chemung County. 

[Adam 373]

https://www.mytwintiers.com/news-cat/first-arena-audit-reveals-loss-misstatements-missing-records/

over 20 years and many of these fools are acting like the problems in the joint are new! time was Mr. Margeson didn't hold such a forgiving attitude towards the mismanagement of the Arena. further, the audacity to claim the Arena is not funded by taxpayer money when over 875k( that we know of) has been siphoned from other potential uses. i may be wrong but i could swear part of the county room tax has been used as well?

875k could have been well used for small business incubation, assistance to existing small businesses, possibly the FQHC or developing the farmer market at the Fairgrounds....

better idea, forget the fairgrounds, doze the arena, create a greenspace with peripheral parking and use that!

[MsKreed 1,178]

Quote

Margeson has repeatedly said the Arena is not financed by tax dollars. Freedom of Information Act requests show the First Arena has received at least $875,909 from the Covid-19 American Rescue Plan. Those are federal tax dollars. 

 

In addition to the $875 in ARP funds.....every year, the Legislature passes a resolution to pay $103,000/yr of Room Tax Revenue to the IDA for the Arena.

This is a continuation of a 2014 resolution that promised the CCIDA more than $2.5 million in tax dollars specifically for the Arena over a 25 year period (2014 – 2039). 

$100k a year isn't a bad steady income for a shady 'quasi-government' agency that flagrantly violates Open Meeting Law to hide its operations from public view, and then boldly lies to the public when it is on record.

He's arrogantly denying the Arena is receiving nearly $3.5 million in tax money ($875k ARP + $2,575,000 Room Tax).

This doesn't include past legislative actions that were a few million from 1999 through 2017......just current tax money trough that the CCIDA is feeding at.

 

"Who us?? We din't git no tax money." 

Edited March 26 by MsKreed

[Chris 2,161]

Calm down, peasant. 

 

 

[Chris 2,161]

7 hours ago, MsKreed said:

He's arrogantly denying the Arena is receiving nearly $3.5 million in tax money ($875k ARP + $2,575,000 Room Tax).

 

Just denied it again live on Facebook. 

[MsKreed 1,178]

16 minutes ago, Chris said:

Just denied it again live on Facebook. 

Wow. I can't find it.........I wasn't aware he had an active Legislator FB page.  Like many of them, I only see the "campaign" page get busy during election years.

Even if he’s using slick, manipulative language like no taxes are being used for directly “operating the Arena”....then it’s twisting facts to give a false perception.

The ongoing Room Tax contributions have never been explained in anything more than vague “everyone benefits because the Arena brings visitors to the area”.  No specific, measurable metric to ever show a payoff for the “investment”. Ten years down, 15 to go. 

And the ARP funds were earmarked for specific equipment, repairs and replacements, etc.  All of which they argued were/are necessary for the Arena to operate. Period.

[Chris 2,161]

25 minutes ago, MsKreed said:

Wow. I can't find it.........I wasn't aware he had an active Legislator FB page.

It's on the WENY Facebook page. 

 

[Chris 2,161]

The embed isn't working, heres the link.