First Arena

[JustAGuy 12]

I find it amusing though I have no idea what group was coming to town but that concert sold all of 223 tickets for 1400 bucks. I believe it was a concert slated for this month. So it was nowhere near on track of selling. Probably would have struggled to sell 1,000. This arena isn't that big but it sounds like they struggle to sell tickets to things. I'm not sure if there's a legit fiscal answer to the woes of this joint other then you need someone with deep pockets who is willing to take the blows fiscally but I doubt anyone like that lives near these parts. That place has likely never turned a profit even in the Jackals golden years but the local government didn't care about that back then....

[MsKreed 1,178]

7 hours ago, JustAGuy said:

I'm not sure if there's a legit fiscal answer to the woes of this joint other then you need someone with deep pockets who is willing to take the blows fiscally but I doubt anyone like that lives near these parts.

I honestly think the IDA has been too eager when seeking tenants. Too many deals, incentives and freebees are a magnet for pipe dreams and shysters without the means to get it off the ground.

They don’t seem to care about the consequences as long as they get a deal signed.

“Will you pay a dollar rent? Please??” ....

”I swear just one dollar and no taxes” ....

“We’ll fix everything that we’ve let fall apart....we promise!!”....

“Just a dollar....and we’ll chip in for your marketing expenses.”

“Will you take it? Will you take it? Huh, huh??? Will you take it....PLEASE???”

“Did we mention there’s no taxes???”

They’re like a crack ho’ so desperate for a hit that she’s offering to do anything and everything imaginable for a dollar.

7 hours ago, JustAGuy said:

That place has likely never turned a profit even in the Jackals golden years but the local government didn't care about that back then....

This is true.

There seems to be some (too many) people suffering from false, idealized nostalgia of how wonderful they remember the Arena being for the area. A review of newspaper archives shows a way different picture.

The truth is every time someone leaves the Arena (from Afr to Donner and everyone in between), they leave behind unpaid bills and taxes that we end up paying because there’s some mistaken notion that “the community” has to save it. Since it’s too big to fail because its success is so freakin’ important for the area.

From the beginning when the Jackals games were supposedly sold out and they were "revitalizing" the City.....the original operators never paid basic bills like sewer usage, outside debtors and utilities, and weren’t maintaining facility and equipment. And that's on top of the tax breaks and cash “investment” from the county.

[Chris 2,161]

15 minutes ago, MsKreed said:

There seems to be some (too many) people suffering from false, idealized nostalgia of how wonderful they remember the Arena being for the area. A review of newspaper archives shows a way different picture.

A second review of those same newspapers will show there was a lot of people who were adamantly against this thing from the get go. But they were either told to sit down and shut up or ignored outright. Somewhere, I'm sure folks like Herb are feeling a little vindicated these days. 

16 minutes ago, MsKreed said:

From the beginning when the Jackals games were supposedly sold out and they were "revitalizing" the City

I don't see how, as I don't recall the surrounding businesses staying open any later or seeing an uptick in business other than the bars.

[JustAGuy 12]

I did recall an article mentioning once that back in the 90s they were looking at a different location(I believe it what was used to be a Tops Supermarket) on the Southside as an arena site. They didn't list what year or anything of this juncture in the article. Nor did they give any names that were interested jn that project at that said time. Would location make any difference? Probably not. But I've always been fascinated on how these guys at the time hooked up with Afr. Elmira wasn't his first rodeo but they found him and he was willing. Why? But it sure feels like this was a pre-planned as the nonsense going on with the PGA Tour and LIV golf right now. The idea and deal seemed done way before time came that it officially came to fruition. The idea of an entertainment facility may have been a good one but it was piss poor execution all the way around. 

[JustAGuy 12]

At the same time Elmira probably would have fallen into the abyss anyways I suppose. Does anyone really think corning would be what it is without that damn fortune 500 company propping it up(although if you look through the tea leaves more and more it seems like they try to push little corning behind as they have stuff in China and what not)I believe last year they were looking at putting a plant out in Phoenix Arizona. But  Elmira has nothing like that. I'm not old enough for the days of the great flood but from what I've been told by the elders around me they've never really put effort in trying to fix most of the city back up or anything that was damaged and all that.

[Zapp Brannigan 137]

Downtown needs more parking than it does an abandoned arena

[Chris 2,161]

[Adam 373]

21 minutes ago, Chris said:

cannot see what this marketing company has to offer any different than it did with the recent owner...except probably siphon tax monies

 

[JustAGuy 12]

What junk are they pulling off now? Apparently the overlords of the IDA had some kind of a meeting today with some employees and season ticket holders. Wow they had 46 season ticket sales lined up? What a snoozer. Nobody is interested in beer  league hockey. But they refuse to acknowledge that. Nobody was going to enforcers games prior either. So employees are saying Donner hadn't been paying them. Hmm....seems like the same song and dance as usual over there. People hearing hockey is coming back but the doors are locked and nobody is running the joint. They even interviewed local community cherished hero Robbie Nichols. He made the remark that the county has said before they don't want to be in the arena business. Robbie has ran the joint but he doesn't have the money it would take to actually operate it on a full term. I also remember the Nichols Jackals years well. It's no different then what's going on at the Dunn. The seats are magically filled but I'm sure there are a ton of freebies being handed out. The cliental that showed up to jackals games quite a few looked like questionable backwoods pennsyltucky folk. I know Robbie worked in a few towns before coming here so probably had connections to beg certain acts to come here. At the end of the day the Nicohls years felt like a great mirage. 

 

The only thing that stumped me a out today is how did that slug Mark Margeson seriously get the IDA Chairman gig? Just as shady as the people he's replaced. 

[JustAGuy 12]

The arena to me is just a symbol of the times and the area itself. Crumbling, decaying and dying a slow inevitable death. Arena or no arena Chemung county and Elmira like most cities in America were headed towards being toast anyway. 

I can't say I truly care at this stage in my life what happens to this arena. I'm looking toward trying to leave this place and never looking back as I'm not a huge fan of this area and never would have asked to have been from here. That being said this thread to me is a trip down memory lane I suppose. 

I'm too young to say when this joint was coming that I cared about it from a fiscal standpoint. I'm at the point in my life now where I don't care about the so called burden because the whole societal system is just a house of cards built to collapse. The debt situation should show you that as is. But when this joint was built I was just a kid close to my teenage years but not quite a teen. It was sort of a mythical fairytale to me. We got this arena it was something new and unimaginable. Living here you knew this county was a dump and people loved clinging on to the glory days but you knew they were long gone and never returning. Your little city got this big entertainment building and you got a hockey team that was playing nationwide against other cities with similar populous or even somewhat fairly bigger. It started out with a bang. The first 4 years they made the Finals twice and had good chances to win a championship. We literally had a top 10 minor league hockey franchise in our own backyard. Something hard to imagine. Then came some tough times as the landscape changed and the elites manufactured banking crisis recession that destroyed our generation went down. The Jackals fought back and ended up moving to a bigger league with teams in markets with top tier pro league sports teams. The year the arena shit became a thing was the second best season in Jackals history. They won the ECHL's Eastern Confrrence Regular Season Title. They finished I think 2nd or 3rd in the league standings and I believe beat the team in a series at the arena here who won the regular season championship cup. That team also had NHL veteran Craig Rivet on it. I was always amazed how he stayed loyal to the franchise and finished out the year. I never would have blamed him had he decided to bolt. A bunch of rumors that year from the lights going out to the team maybe not even finishing the year to even the wild one that the Jesuit price who owns the Sabres was maybe going to buy it all. That team lost in the 2nd round of the playoffs, 2 rounds short of the Finals. That sucked but an amazing year. It was the last year I decided to give a shit about the team or go to games. After that year I only ever have been back for 1 game but it was a free wine and dine type experience so whatever. It was the perfect final year. The only thing that ever missed with the Jackals franchise to complete the unbelievable mythical fairytale was the fact they never ultimately won a league Chamionship

 But for 13 years before the stupid government and the friends of the Chamber of Commerce helped their clown buddy Tom Freeman get the arena we had a playoff team for 10 or 11 of those years and almost won a couple of championships. Not bad for one of if not the smallest city with AA or higher pro hockry(the only cities that may have been smaller were Wheeling and Johnstown)

[Chris 2,161]

I’m gonna do something I wouldn’t normally do, and in a roundabout way make a prediction:

- Hakes Marketing is based out of Watkins Glen

- Michael Printup recently announced his retirement from WGI

- About that same time it was announced all this was happening with the Arena.

Let’s wait and see if I’m right, or if these three things truly are just coincidental. 

EDIT: I do see that Hakes has been doing marketing for the Arena for a while. Still, the second two are too coincidental to me. I could be wrong though.

[JustAGuy 12]

LMAOOOOOOOOOOO. The shit show continues. The FPHL and IDA are going to share a team???? There is no known actual tenant or physical person going to be running the arena but the IDA magically wants to be involved???apparently getting lacrosse back??? All this if Steve Donner isn't involved? Color me one to think Steve Donner isn't the problem. Maybe a part but the IDA is a bigger constant problem then him. The same IDA that has a member saying they would eliminate Sperr park(not that it means anything to me)to get a stupid travel truck stop by the airport? We don't need a travel truck stop. Only locals go to the airport here really. 

Mark Margeson is a joke and WETM having their sports guy praise him for transparency is hilarious. 

I did root for failure with Tom Freeman but I'm really hoping this fflops.these bozos have no clue. Nobody wants FPHL hockey. They didn't ith Robbie handing out freebies and they didn't with Donner's hype. If they really are he'll bent on going all in the least they should have done was take on the SPHL or try for the ECHL again. The FPHL is not gunna attract a mass audience. 

[JustAGuy 12]

12 hours ago, Chris said:

I’m gonna do something I wouldn’t normally do, and in a roundabout way make a prediction:

- Hakes Marketing is based out of Watkins Glen

- Michael Printup recently announced his retirement from WGI

- About that same time it was announced all this was happening with the Arena.

Let’s wait and see if I’m right, or if these three things truly are just coincidental. 

EDIT: I do see that Hakes has been doing marketing for the Arena for a while. Still, the second two are too coincidental to me. I could be wrong though.

Interesting thought. But Printup isn't a local so it would be very strange. Printup is a guy who has worked for Nascar for a few tracks. I had no idea they owned the Glen. Probably the only reason it still operates and gets a race. He said when he retired he wanted to spend more time with his family. I don't think he has any real roots here but he did run for that silly congressional race or legislature awhile back. Got creamed but he did run. I guess I wonder what a guy with a career in NASCAR would know about the arena business or why he would even want to get into it. It just doesn't add up unless he owes one of these goons some kinda favor.

[Chris 2,161]

2 hours ago, JustAGuy said:

Interesting thought. But Printup isn't a local so it would be very strange. Printup is a guy who has worked for Nascar for a few tracks. I had no idea they owned the Glen. Probably the only reason it still operates and gets a race. He said when he retired he wanted to spend more time with his family. I don't think he has any real roots here but he did run for that silly congressional race or legislature awhile back. Got creamed but he did run. I guess I wonder what a guy with a career in NASCAR would know about the arena business or why he would even want to get into it. It just doesn't add up unless he owes one of these goons some kinda favor.

Well it’s obvious now I was wrong.

But as to why a guy who successfully ran a multi-million dollar raceway with world class racing and the occasional concert would know about running a sports arena?

Golly, I couldn’t begin to imagine.

[Chris 2,161]

[Chris 2,161]

This is a hot steaming crock of shit.

And to say they’re hopeful the county can get on board, support, or whatever? Shouldn’t be too hard since Margeson chairs both the legislature and the CCIDA 

Let’s see how many millions of dollars they can waste on it for a couple hundred hockey fans and families before it gets through their heads that this is not a hockey town.

And forgive me if I’m not dazzled by the mention of someone who was involved with the Buffalo Bills and Sabers. It’s the same crap we heard when they were pumping up Donner and his Hollywood connections or whatever.

I’lol be the first to admit if I’m wrong and they make it work. ( And part of me suspects it won’t be too hard when you have the taxpayer tit to feed off from whenever “necessary”. ) But ultimately I still believe this is gonna end up a multi-million dollar pile of rubble in the next decade or two. 

[Chris 2,161]

[JustAGuy 12]

2 hours ago, Chris said:

Well it’s obvious now I was wrong.

But as to why a guy who successfully ran a multi-million dollar raceway with world class racing and the occasional concert would know about running a sports arena?

Golly, I couldn’t begin to imagine.

Quite different though to get 50,000 drunks to watch phish so to speak or however many it was for example. With all the cp sites and so forth you have the space. Nobody is gunna come to a 4K spot unless you play them handsomely. There is a big big difference. The Glen has existed for decades and has had big things way before Printup. Summer Jam and so forth. They had the Nascar race before him. 

It was an interesting guess or thought though 

[JustAGuy 12]

1 hour ago, Chris said:

This is a hot steaming crock of shit.

And to say they’re hopeful the county can get on board, support, or whatever? Shouldn’t be too hard since Margeson chairs both the legislature and the CCIDA 

Let’s see how many millions of dollars they can waste on it for a couple hundred hockey fans and families before it gets through their heads that this is not a hockey town.

And forgive me if I’m not dazzled by the mention of someone who was involved with the Buffalo Bills and Sabers. It’s the same crap we heard when they were pumping up Donner and his Hollywood connections or whatever.

I’lol be the first to admit if I’m wrong and they make it work. ( And part of me suspects it won’t be too hard when you have the taxpayer tit to feed off from whenever “necessary”. ) But ultimately I still believe this is gonna end up a multi-million dollar pile of rubble in the next decade or two. 

Well it's not so much being dazzled as it is having multi billion and money to piss away. I guess that would be the bottomline big thing. 

I think it's not about hockey in general but it's quality hockey. This league is like a beer league pickup on a Wednesday.the Jackals would get decent attendance until the whole thing became so God damn political 

[Adam 373]

the Arena nor Hockey has had zero positive effect on this area, it has not turned a profit from day one, currently draws ZERO property taxes, why the hell do folks keep riding the hockey train around here?

youth hockey benefits a small population of kids in this area; many if not all likely are from the higher income brackets as equipment and traveling is expensive enough to preclude the average Elmiran from participating. we the taxpayers have spent millions on this boondoggle and the same excuses every time the new tenant fails.

its time to ditch Joe Roman, sell the arena for CHEAP and get it back on the tax rolls and get taxpayers off the hook for this ridiculousness

 

[Hal 341]

In short … Get it on the tax roll or let the bulldozer roll ! 
 

[Chris 2,161]

8 hours ago, JustAGuy said:

Nobody is gunna come to a 4K spot unless you play them handsomely.

I think there’s been enough proof in the past showing that it is entirely possible to bring in quality entertainment. It’s around 3700 seats, plus floor capacity. ( I don’t believe the seating number given counts the floor. ) They just haven’t done it on a consistent enough basis and/or offered enough of a variety to make the place profitable. ( And history has shown hockey ain’t gonna cut it, no matter how much they try and ram it down our throats.)

For example you could get someone like Chris Stapleton in there for around $150k and keep tickets under $50 on average. In a venue like First Arena, there’s no such thing as a bad seat. The vending sales alone would make it lucrative.

They used to have great events down there like comic-cons that were very well attended. But I’d bet cash money that past management made it onerous enough on event organizers so they decided to not do it again or move it to a different venue. I helped put on an event there once upon a time, so I speak from experience.

If the CCIDA is serious about making this a “community” place, they should be seeking ideas for locally oriented events and the people to organize them as well as those from out of town. I could list close to a half dozen ideas off the top of my head in no time at all. ( And I know you guys read this site, so feel free to contact me. ) But here’s the thing: You can’t keep a stranglehold on the organizers or put so many financial barriers in the way in the pursuit of profits for the Arena that people don’t wanna work with you. 

[JustAGuy 12]

1 hour ago, Hal said:

In short … Get it on the tax roll or let the bulldozer roll ! 
 

Didn't they claim Freeman was gunna do that the day hw took over? Never happened. 

[JustAGuy 12]

10 hours ago, Adam said:

the Arena nor Hockey has had zero positive effect on this area, it has not turned a profit from day one, currently draws ZERO property taxes, why the hell do folks keep riding the hockey train around here?

youth hockey benefits a small population of kids in this area; many if not all likely are from the higher income brackets as equipment and traveling is expensive enough to preclude the average Elmiran from participating. we the taxpayers have spent millions on this boondoggle and the same excuses every time the new tenant fails.

its time to ditch Joe Roman, sell the arena for CHEAP and get it back on the tax rolls and get taxpayers off the hook for this ridiculousness

 

I guess we will never really agree on it. Not that I care either way I do hate living in this shithole area that has very little to do but a lot of crime, drugs and welfare. 

Of course it hasn't turned a profit but at this juncture who cares. This county has a lot of dead and decaying buildings that are standing and offer nothing but painful memories and a waste of space. 

Now that the local government is in control that won't happen. They can play Afrs old game and now benefit. They had a bum that asshole Freeman who just up and ditched it and handed it over to these Clow s for free. Nevermimd that bozo has a conflict of interest with the airport but the buddies of the guy Adore that clown. He was supposed to be the savior. He was worse to happen for that place than Afr or the IDA just about. 

[JustAGuy 12]

1 hour ago, Chris said:

I think there’s been enough proof in the past showing that it is entirely possible to bring in quality entertainment. It’s around 3700 seats, plus floor capacity. ( I don’t believe the seating number given counts the floor. ) They just haven’t done it on a consistent enough basis and/or offered enough of a variety to make the place profitable. ( And history has shown hockey ain’t gonna cut it, no matter how much they try and ram it down our throats.)

For example you could get someone like Chris Stapleton in there for around $150k and keep tickets under $50 on average. In a venue like First Arena, there’s no such thing as a bad seat. The vending sales alone would make it lucrative.

They used to have great events down there like comic-cons that were very well attended. But I’d bet cash money that past management made it onerous enough on event organizers so they decided to not do it again or move it to a different venue. I helped put on an event there once upon a time, so I speak from experience.

If the CCIDA is serious about making this a “community” place, they should be seeking ideas for locally oriented events and the people to organize them as well as those from out of town. I could list close to a half dozen ideas off the top of my head in no time at all. ( And I know you guys read this site, so feel free to contact me. ) But here’s the thing: You can’t keep a stranglehold on the organizers or put so many financial barriers in the way in the pursuit of profits for the Arena that people don’t wanna work with you. 

I remember they used to do high school basketball in there every December for a tournament on a Saturday. Well it wasn't a tournament but a bunch of local schools playing each other. Even had PA teams. Granted now that corning and Elmira merged their schools there are now less schools around to make that happen? Think they did high school wrestling too? The year I graduated and the years around it the high schools graduated there but I don't think they paid a dime to do it. I think every high school in the County did it except for Edison and ND(probably cause they are private)

I'm not a fan of country music unfortunately that redneck shit rules around here. Tag's is garbage and the guy is a horses ass but they used to bring in some rock and alternative tickets. The arena has done old foggiest like Bob Dylan. The only thing they ever put on that I had interest in seeing was Staind and that was eons ago in like 2005 or 2006 or whenever it was.