KarenK 503 Posted November 24, 2021 So many "in the know". We have the pro's 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
KarenK 503 Posted November 24, 2021 And then the cons 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
MsKreed 1,571 Posted November 24, 2021 As well as the "it's was all a plot to give Robbie the shaft" crowd: Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
KarenK 503 Posted November 24, 2021 The give Robbie the shaft is the most popular. It was all a big plan to get him out. So my question is why? I have never actually heard why the CCIDA worked so hard to get rid of him, only that they are and have been. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Chris 3,211 Posted November 24, 2021 The ridiculous “$125/mo” lease deal was up, right? If so, the IDA was never obligated to renew the lease anyway. And why would they? Judging by some of the pictures in that engineering study, it would appear the tenant wasn’t taking great care of the facility anyway. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Adam 527 Posted November 24, 2021 all in all though, some things do not pass the smell test with this new agreement. Company just and specifically formed for this deal, the guy from Hollywood apparently has history of ripping off people, no public meeting to either introduce the prospective party nor announce terms of the deal(which is BS since the County taxpayers have a stake in it anyways) seems like another round with the Afr's to me Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
KarenK 503 Posted November 24, 2021 5 hours ago, Chris said: The ridiculous “$125/mo” lease deal was up, right? If so, the IDA was never obligated to renew the lease anyway. And why would they? Judging by some of the pictures in that engineering study, it would appear the tenant wasn’t taking great care of the facility anyway. Of course those pictures were staged. Ask anyone "in the know" I'm sorry but that's just ridiculous. The IDA is not going to go to that kind of trouble. The ball was technically in their court. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
KarenK 503 Posted November 24, 2021 4 hours ago, Adam said: all in all though, some things do not pass the smell test with this new agreement. Company just and specifically formed for this deal, the guy from Hollywood apparently has history of ripping off people, no public meeting to either introduce the prospective party nor announce terms of the deal(which is BS since the County taxpayers have a stake in it anyways) seems like another round with the Afr's to me I don't know about that. Its not the least bit unusual for new LLC's to be formed specifically for a new venture. I add names to insurance and write new policies daily for that very reason. Common thing to keep assets separate from other ventures. I have restaurant policies with 14 or 15 different named insured just because every one they open up they form a new LLC for it. I found one article on Tadross and from reading it, looked like a partners pissing match that the family got involved in after the one partner passed. Nothing like the stuff out there on teh Afrs even before the deal with them. The lack up up front transparency by the IDA does concern me. Technical error perhaps or perhaps not but it does give the illusion of trying to hide something. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
KarenK 503 Posted November 25, 2021 https://www-rochesterfirst-com.cdn.ampproject.org/v/s/www.rochesterfirst.com/news/state-news/investigation-who-is-the-new-operator-of-first-arena/amp/?usqp=mq331AQKKAFQArABIIACAw%3D%3D&_js_v=a6&_gsa=1&fbclid=IwAR12q_l_MJu418t6n-wWuzclrr91M0FD82TPeSgMxlIa6eNGYgTRUlYFU5M#referrer=https://www.google.com&csi=0 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
MsKreed 1,571 Posted November 26, 2021 (edited) On 11/24/2021 at 9:09 AM, Adam said: no public meeting to either introduce the prospective party nor announce terms of the deal(which is BS since the County taxpayers have a stake in it anyways) On 11/24/2021 at 2:08 PM, KarenK said: The lack up up front transparency by the IDA does concern me. Technical error perhaps or perhaps not but it does give the illusion of trying to hide something. The more I thought about the "clerical error" that they claim caused the failure to give advance notice to the public....the more I’ve tried to research to reassure my gut that wasn’t some conspiratorial plan to sneak a deal in covertly. But whatever I try to research makes me feel like this is less an oversight and more and more resembling intentional secrecy. That’s because advance public notice for the November 23rd meeting is not the only thing “missing” from the situation. This is the first (that I’ve learned about) of any CCIDA meeting not being live streamed and archived on the County website since the law requiring them to live-stream and post video recordings of their meetings took effect January 2020. Failing to provide notice of the meeting is one thing - that could be attributed to communication lapse. Deciding not to record it is a next level failure, that seems like a deliberate omission. This begs the question of how many other CCIDA meetings have taken place outside the camera that we don’t know about. It surely seems illogical to assume the IDA members confidently voted to accept an agreement of this magnitude during the very meeting in which it was first presented. Yet, since the lease with Can-USA expired in July, no other lease proposal has been mentioned in any other meeting...at least not any that were recorded for public access (as per the law). Edited November 26, 2021 by MsKreed Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
MsKreed 1,571 Posted December 1, 2021 So...did anyone else find a video of today's press conference that was promised to "answer all our questions"? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Chris 3,211 Posted December 1, 2021 47 minutes ago, MsKreed said: So...did anyone else find a video of today's press conference that was promised to "answer all our questions"? Here: https://www.facebook.com/wenytv/videos/269169061935284/ I was gonna watch it again and break it down to bullet points but I don’t have time this evening. I need to hire a staff… that’ll work for free. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
KarenK 503 Posted December 1, 2021 (edited) https://www.stargazette.com/story/news/local/2021/12/01/first-arena-elmira-new-management-team-5-year-lease/8822547002/ The lease agreement includes a base payment to the IDA, along with additional funds based on what the management team is able to earn from facility operations. "We guarantee $600,000 minimum we will pay (the IDA) over five years," Donner said. "If we don't sell one ticket they will still get that $600,000. But we figure we will average about $200,000 to $300,000 a year." Well, that's better than the prior lessor. A little. Edited December 1, 2021 by KarenK 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Chris 3,211 Posted December 2, 2021 Part of the presser was that Frank Stallone would be one of the upcoming acts. Seems to me I was just reading something about him and how, kind of like David Hasslehoff, Stallone has a very vibrant career outside of the U.S. Or something like that. I’ll give him credit, he’s a been at it for going on 40 years. But as the man said, it’s hard to establish credibility and draw in major acts when a place changes hands every year or so. So I’ll remain cautiously optimistic about future events and acts. I wish they’d get over the hockey thing though. I’m sorry, but this just isn’t a hockey town. The tattoo convention though? That’s a big deal and I hope it works out. Hell, I might go just to see the artwork! 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
MsKreed 1,571 Posted December 2, 2021 I played it through and made a few notes. Here’s the breakdown from my perspective: 1) The WENY news clock said 1:05 pm when the video started, so it seems that the first few minutes were truncated. When it started, they appeared to be halfway through the “community leaders” welcoming the new LLC to the area. We missed the beginning, but caught....STEG/Hilliard CEO, President of Elmira College, Chamber of Commerce president, etc 2) Next was 3 minutes of Joe Roman reciting Donners Sports experience before Donner took the podium.....Rochester Americans (AHL), Rochester Nighthawks (National Lacrosse League), Rochester Rattlers (major league Lacrosse), Rochester Rhinos (united soccer league), developer for National Lacrosse League & ESL Sport’s Center/PayTek Park, marketing director Buffalo Sabre’s, Buffalo Bandits (National Lacrosse League), Tampa Bay Lightning (NHL), and a few recognitions/awards for his contributions to some of the above noted sports leagues. 3) Donner’s first 2 minutes were spent rattling off all the extensive discussions and communications with community leaders and “partners”. Beginning with oozing appreciation for the IDA members and the wonderful reception he got from them all during discussions (which clearly seem to have been considerably more than the one meeting last week when the public notice was missed due to a “clerical” error). Personally thanking Margeson, Roman and Sheen by name. He praised Roman for spending “so much time” .....all of their “discussions, there’s texts, phone calls, weekends”...as well as the introduction to the IDA board and some corporate leaders, mayor, city manager, county exec, college president “the entire community has been a pert of this”. 4) He dedicated about 4.5 minutes to a brief, but clear outline of the lease agreement. Explaining that a 5 year commitment will help ensure the stability needed to attract and keep contracts with consistent ownership. He indicated that they will be making an upfront investment to acquire teams, etc as well as for initial work on arena: kitchen, upgrading concessions, bathrooms, ice plant, etc (walking in at approximately 350-500k, of what sounds like their own out of pocket money). And they will be responsible for all operational and maintenance costs. From their even proceeds, they will contribute (minimum $600k, ‘hopefully’ as high as $1.8 million) to a reserve fund for future renovations and upgrades......which will be controlled by CCIDA. This “nuts n bolts” summary of the finance plan was followed with some insight into their “vision” on how they want the facility utilized...... 5) About two minutes characterizing his Partner (Mike Tadross Jr) using a lot of generalized references to experience in the entertainment industry, without much (if any) specifics. “he literally is Hollywood movie producer”, “his family is involved with Universal Entertainment”, “he has personal relationships with stars and acts that he can bring here by request, by favor” 6) He then went into further depth for about 4 minutes on the anticipated expansion of sports: promising that they will add either lacrosse or soccer, contracting with EC hockey, seeking to hold a college hockey tournament, and a timeline for youth/local hockey opening.....including family skating planned to start by 12/10, and be open year round. 7) Closing was a list of acts that have been booked. So far 3 concerts and 4 comedy acts have committed, including: Frank Stallone Band, Robert Dobby, John Lovitz, Chris Roach, Mike Eshaq and The Redneck Tenors; and a 3-day National Tattoo Convention (expected to fill a minimum of 600 hotel rooms in the area). They also expect “more to come” events (potentially WWE and UFC) not yet confirmed....and a round of “thank yous” Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Kevin 456 Posted December 2, 2021 Quote The tattoo convention though? That’s a big deal and I hope it works out. Hell, I might go just to see the artwork! I will definitely go to that, maybe get another one. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Adam 527 Posted December 2, 2021 On 11/26/2021 at 11:50 AM, MsKreed said: The more I thought about the "clerical error" that they claim caused the failure to give advance notice to the public....the more I’ve tried to research to reassure my gut that wasn’t some conspiratorial plan to sneak a deal in covertly. But whatever I try to research makes me feel like this is less an oversight and more and more resembling intentional secrecy. That’s because advance public notice for the November 23rd meeting is not the only thing “missing” from the situation. This is the first (that I’ve learned about) of any CCIDA meeting not being live streamed and archived on the County website since the law requiring them to live-stream and post video recordings of their meetings took effect January 2020. Failing to provide notice of the meeting is one thing - that could be attributed to communication lapse. Deciding not to record it is a next level failure, that seems like a deliberate omission. This begs the question of how many other CCIDA meetings have taken place outside the camera that we don’t know about. It surely seems illogical to assume the IDA members confidently voted to accept an agreement of this magnitude during the very meeting in which it was first presented. Yet, since the lease with Can-USA expired in July, no other lease proposal has been mentioned in any other meeting...at least not any that were recorded for public access (as per the law). as of yet there seems to be no answer as to why that meeting was either not recorded or not streamed Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Chris 3,211 Posted December 2, 2021 19 minutes ago, MsKreed said: Personally thanking Margeson... A little birdie told me last night that were it not for Mark Margeson, this would have never happened. And that initially STEG blew it off. I won't swear that it's true, but the source is reliable. They also mentioned another county attraction, but I didn't pursue that. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Adam 527 Posted December 2, 2021 i hate to bust out the tin foil but despite all the love and unicorn farts of that announcement ( press conferences usually involve a Q&A session) but im still bothered by the fact that a "clerical error" and ZERO presence of video/streaming of the meetings exist. im sorry but i dont subscribe to ends justifying means; if its such a sweetheart deal for taxpayers why were we not privy to ANYTHING until after deal was sealed? i hope it succeeds this time but as a taxpayer im starting to feel a bent over type situation coming Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
MsKreed 1,571 Posted December 2, 2021 11 minutes ago, Chris said: A little birdie told me last night that were it not for Mark Margeson, this would have never happened. Donner pretty much blurted that out at the presser....."from when I was first contacted by Mark Margeson". 10 minutes ago, Adam said: if its such a sweetheart deal for taxpayers why were we not privy to ANYTHING until after deal was sealed? I agree.....does it sound like a better deal than Nichols? Yes. It seems much better than $125/mo and failing to fulfill maintenance obligation. Does that mean we have assurance that it will be a net gain or recoup taxpayer $$ that have been dumped into it? Possibly, but the secrecy has made that hard to ascertain so far. Should we excuse the violation of Open Meeting laws, if it turns out to be a booming and wildly successful endeavor (whose proceeds will recover all losses and bring in business and revenue all across the area)? NO - absolutely not. I'm not clear on who/how IDA members are appointed, but I think the entire board (as well as the various elected officials who participated in the clandestine affair) owes the public an explanation and a sincere apology for failing to provide the legally required notices and recordings (or any acknowledgement/minutes) of the whole series of meetings that resulted in this deal. In my earlier post - I tried to summarize the press conference as impartially as I could....I plan to break down my personal thoughts on each topic in a separate reply later today. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Chris 3,211 Posted December 2, 2021 58 minutes ago, MsKreed said: Donner pretty much blurted that out at the presser....."from when I was first contacted by Mark Margeson". Ok I missed that part. 58 minutes ago, MsKreed said: I plan to break down my personal thoughts on each topic in a separate reply later today. THAT's the kinda stuff you won't find on Facebook folks!! I'm looking forward to reading it. 👍 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
KarenK 503 Posted December 2, 2021 2 hours ago, Kevin said: I will definitely go to that, maybe get another one. I'm all for the TAT convention too. If it happens that will be a great draw to the area. Big business. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
KarenK 503 Posted December 2, 2021 2 hours ago, Chris said: A little birdie told me last night that were it not for Mark Margeson, this would have never happened. And that initially STEG blew it off. I won't swear that it's true, but the source is reliable. They also mentioned another county attraction, but I didn't pursue that. Most of you know I have a personal friendship with him that actually developed because of his jumping into politics and Sid sending him my way for assistance. He's a smart guy and with a few exceptions I haven't had any really issue with how he has represented my district. I can say if he finds something that he thinks will work and is worth the time and effort he is like a dog with a bone. Won't let it go. He managed to get funds for our Woodfest that no one ever was able to get for us (although pandemic screwed that up) because he was relentless with the County about it. Like everyone else I am not happy about the clandestine arrangements and I wonder if it were only one or two of them "making clerical errors" or all were privy. Several of those folks on CCIDA I have always found to be pretty up and up. Roman is not one of them. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
MsKreed 1,571 Posted December 3, 2021 (edited) I think there are three main aspects of this new venture that each strike me with different reactions. 1) The black & white numbers and how they affect the taxpayer’s financial interest. 2) The “vision” and plan on how the facility will be utilized. 3) The credibility of the new tenants and whether their stated intentions are honest, trustworthy and feasible. 4) The credibility, honesty and trustworthiness of the local officials that made the deal. Here are my general impressions of these points: 1) For the first point, the characterization we heard from Donner about the terms of the lease sound much better than what we’ve seen with previous situations. In terms of their upfront investment and improvements, as well as the stipulation that proceeds will be deposited into a reserve fund for IDA to control for upgrades and renovations. This is a valuable assurance, whether it’s the projected $1.8 million he anticipates could accrue....or the minimum $ 600k he’s ‘guaranteeing’ over 5 years. Of course, we will need to see the actual written lease to verify his depiction is accurate, but the way he described it, the terms are beneficial. 2) Donner’s portrayal sounds great all around. The plan includes everything that would be necessary to ensure steady revenue year-round (which has been lacking for 20 years): expanded/extended sports offerings, diverse entertainment that will appeal to non-sports fans, and events that draw vendors and participants from outside the area to boost other businesses. The only caveat that I’d be concerned about is that we’ve consistently heard previous operators “envision” the same type of multi-use facility....and have each fallen short. Point #3 speaks to the question of whether Donner/Tadross are more equipped to deliver on this vision. 3) For Donner’s part, it seems like most of the teams he’s been involved with through the years are doing fine and not run into the ground under scandal like some that Mostafa &Tamer Afr were involved with. And the professional accolades that Roman mentioned when citing Donner’s curriculum vitae would suggest that various sports leagues have found him reputable. However, Tadross’s credentials haven’t been presented with as much specificity. Other than the one lawsuit that resulted from a spat with a former business partner, we’ve really only been offered vague hints of his achievements (“he is literally a Hollywood movie producer”, “his family is involved with Universal Entertainment”, “he has personal relationships with stars and acts”). While it’s a little disconcerting that “we” haven’t been presented with names of any productions or acts that allegedly make him “the entertainment guy”... his IMDB profile does show a movie & TV career that’s been more successful than any ties that the Afr’s or Robbie Nichols’s have to the entertainment world. 4) To discuss the transparency and credibility of the local officials, let’s refer back to point #1 above, where we have Donner’s characterization of the lease terms. Take note that we heard this from Donner, and we heard it after the lease was signed. Not from our own people. Not until after the fact. Let that sink in. This part does not sit well with me. When the CCIDA met on November 23rd and voted to accept this deal, Roman told the media there was a “clerical error” that the public did not get advance notice of that meeting. It’s concerning that the meeting was not only not announced, but not recorded as required by law. And the CCIDA webpage hasn’t posted any minutes. Moreover, there has been no mention of any potential new tenant in any of the minutes or recordings for any of the six IDA meetings that have taken place since Nichols’ lease expired... including the Nov 18th meeting that took place 5 days prior to accepting this lease. All official public records would suggest that November 23rd was the first time the IDA board even heard about Donner & Tadross – and would have the public believe that they accepted the offer on the spot. And yet, Donner’s remarks made it clear that there have been detailed negotiations going on for quite some time between this group and CCIDA, as well as several other local elected officials for quite some time. In the past, the public has been at least apprised that interest has been expressed for a sale/lease. But this time around, from the time CAN-USA vacated the arena, no reports or information was shared with the public about any potential tenant – in fact the opposite was implied through the media.....that there was a distinct possibility that demolition would be a consideration. Let’s be perfectly clear here... This was not just one meeting that they "accidentally" forgot to announce in advance. It was an entire multi-million dollar negotiation taking place over the course of weeks, completely outside the public view and without any minutes or documentation. I would imagine it makes sense that various board members would be in position to have discussions with this group in their official capacities outside their IDA scope; it’s not unreasonable for these prospective promoters to engage with the city manager, legislators, deputy county executive, etc. But as the body that controls taxpayers funds and makes decisions that often have long term impact for the entire county.....those decisions can’t be the result of ad hoc independent conversations that board members had outside of official meetings. Edited December 3, 2021 by MsKreed 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Chris 3,211 Posted December 3, 2021 40 minutes ago, MsKreed said: 1) For the first point, the characterization we heard from Donner about the terms of the lease sound much better than what we’ve seen with previous situations. In terms of their upfront investment and improvements, as well as the stipulation that proceeds will be deposited into a reserve fund for IDA to control for upgrades and renovations. This alone is a vast improvement over the previous agreement. 40 minutes ago, MsKreed said: his IMDB profile does show a movie & TV career that’s been more successful than any ties that the Afr’s or Robbie Nichols’s have to the entertainment world. Definitely interesting. He's worked with Will Smith more than once, that's pretty cool. You know initially I kinda scoffed at the acts immediately on tap. I mean, I can't imagine Frank Stallone is a big draw, but maybe? However as Donner himself said, it takes time to build up a good rapport with larger acts, so I think this is one area we need to give them some slack on and see how it plays out. 43 minutes ago, MsKreed said: Let’s be perfectly clear here... This was not just one meeting that they "accidentally" forgot to announce in advance. It was an entire multi-million dollar negotiation taking place over the course of weeks, completely outside the public view and without any minutes or documentation. Has anyone in the media asked about this? ( Hahah I know... ) I know it's been asked on social media. Has there been any answers from local officials? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites