First Arena

[Adam 373]

for what it is worth i sent email to our Rep asking for him to vote "no"

[Chris 2,161]

I wrote the following to our legislator. I urge others who oppose this to do the same:

“I am writing to voice my disapproval of the county giving the CCIDA the proposed $500,000 in ARP funds. Or any funds for that matter.

That money could be put to far better use for projects elsewhere in the county. The proposed indoor farmers market and convention center at the county fairgrounds being just one example. 

First Arena has been a millstone around the taxpayers necks for far too long. And now that Mr. Margeson sits on the IDA and chairs the legislature, we’re supposed to fast track yet more money into that place? I think that’s not only wrong, it’s arguably a conflict of interests.

I hope you and others on the legislature will vote against this.“

 

[Chris 2,161]

I haven't had time to watch the meeting. How many voted to fund the arena and for how much?

 

[MsKreed 1,178]

57 minutes ago, Chris said:

I haven't had time to watch the meeting. How many voted to fund the arena and for how much?

Resolution 23-568 to transfer of the $500k that had been added to the budget in December was unanimously passed by the (10) legislators who voted. Donovan, Pickering and Stermer were absent from the meeting; Chalk and Margeson recused themselves from voting.

This brings the total ARP funds paid to IDA for the Arena to $875k.

Before the roll call vote, Morse (who has expressed reservations about the IDA on several projects) thanked Mr. Margeson and ‘others’ for answering her many questions and going over the Business Plan during ‘many discussions’. She said she is pleased with what she’s hearing and supports “changing the mindset from hockey to a Community Center and doing more that our community can be involved in; there’s more potential here”.

I look forward to the IDA openly and transparently sharing that Business Plan with the public.

[Chris 2,161]

7 minutes ago, MsKreed said:

I look forward to the IDA openly and transparently sharing that Business Plan with the public

How long can you hold your breath?

[Adam 373]

10 hours ago, MsKreed said:

This brings the total ARP funds paid to IDA for the Arena to $875k.

i thought they previously approved the 875k and this round was an additional 500k?

[Adam 373]

funny thing is, you listen to many residents of Southport, its no wonder the Arena has been such a financial shit-show...Joe Roman in charge of both

cant help but wonder if some sort of "fix" was in for this vote: three, with at least one that was against more funding, were absent, 10 (surprise surprise) vote yes, but Legislator Morse is bit surprising; every dollar wasted on that arena is one less that could be spent furthering an agricultural revival, or at minimum, a building NOT associated with repeated failure/hockey, that a wider community could benefit from.

[MsKreed 1,178]

2 minutes ago, Adam said:

i thought they previously approved the 875k and this round was an additional 500k?

I had originally thought that....but the way it was outlined to me is this:

$375 was paid out last year. Then $500k was listed as part of the Executive's "ARP Plan"......which was voted on and approved by the Legislature and included in the 2023 Budget. (Bringing the total to $875k, that I assumed was done and paid).

However, actually transferring funds for each project in the "ARP Plan" requires its own "final" voting process (first in the Budget Committee and then the full Legislature). So only the first $375k was all that had been fully approved, and paid out to the IDA until now.  

The Fairgrounds Building project was also listed as part of the Executive's "ARP Plan" in the budget, but will go through the vote process again when the time comes for it to be paid out. 

[Chris 2,161]

Quote

 

“According to a November 9th Chemung County IDA meeting, the IDA's total income for October was $73,000. The total expenses were between $256,000/$257,000 with about $210,000 being Arena related. This totals an operating loss of $184,000. However, Margeson said this was to be expected.

"What you have to understand is that we've gone through a lot in 23 years. The facility [was beaten] up over a long period of time and this particular group of people on the IDA board has put together a group that has put this facility back together. We're dealing with the maintenance of it [and] we're putting it in a position where it's successful. The bottom line is we want to make it a community facility [and] more than just a hockey facility," said Margeson.

 

Read more here

[Chris 2,161]

I would absolutely love for one of our county legislators to come on here and make the case for continued use of taxpayers' money to keep this place afloat. I say that with a completely open mind. Help me, and others, understand the rationale. 

[Hal 341]

What Mr Margeson “ Needs to understand “ is , we as the Owners …( Chemung County Taxpayers ) are just about sick and tired of the same old crap coming from the CCIDA ! We the Owners … yes remember us ? We have waited too long for a return on Our investment, now its time to quit with the blame passing onto former operators , they each in their turn were touted as the best in the business , but here we are with the same millstone around our necks that was foisted on us year ago by the City because they couldn’t make it work either ! 
So , CCIDA it’s time for you to get out of the Promotion business ,  bring in the bulldozers and turn the space into something more useful and less of a money suck . It was ill conceived from the very start by the City of Elmira and County Taxpayers have had their / our pockets picked for long enough !! 
That Mr Margeson is what we “ Understand “ all too well !  
 

[Jim 13]

On 11/9/2023 at 9:51 PM, Chris said:

I wrote the following to our legislator. I urge others who oppose this to do the same:

“I am writing to voice my disapproval of the county giving the CCIDA the proposed $500,000 in ARP funds. Or any funds for that matter.

That money could be put to far better use for projects elsewhere in the county. The proposed indoor farmers market and convention center at the county fairgrounds being just one example. 

First Arena has been a millstone around the taxpayers necks for far too long. And now that Mr. Margeson sits on the IDA and chairs the legislature, we’re supposed to fast track yet more money into that place? I think that’s not only wrong, it’s arguably a conflict of interests.

I hope you and others on the legislature will vote against this.“

 

Use of ARP funds by both the Legislature and the City of Elmira is incredibly wasteful and inappropriate.

[Jim 13]

In the end, if the legislature were to decide to tear the building down, there should be a PLAN to replace that space in an attractive way that complies with the architecture of the downtown and encourages the redevelopment of a downtown that is a true downtown, not a mall. It takes imaginative, visionary, knowledgeable leadership.

[MsKreed 1,178]

Quote

"[We have] the youth [hockey] programs, [a] junior hockey program, and we also have a professional group. We're in the process of taking the old practice rink and putting turf on that. We're looking to bring in lacrosse, soccer, [any] athletic event. It'll be another income stream this facility has never had before," said Margeson.

What a forward thinking plan!!

Thank goodness we now have this particular group of people on the IDA board that has put together a group that can come up with ideas that no one has thought of before.

Edited November 22, 2023 by MsKreed

[MsKreed 1,178]

1 hour ago, Hal said:

What Mr Margeson “ Needs to understand “ is , we as the Owners …( Chemung County Taxpayers ) are just about sick and tired of the same old crap coming from the CCIDA ! We the Owners … yes remember us ? We have waited too long for a return on Our investment, now its time to quit with the blame passing onto former operators , they each in their turn were touted as the best in the business , but here we are with the same millstone around our necks that was foisted on us year ago by the City because they couldn’t make it work either ! 

This idea really does seem to escape them.

The elected Legislature appointed the IDA, and now the IDA appointed a “group of experts” that they have yet to name in public.

Perhaps the taxpayer “owners” would feel more at ease if we could have some dialogue and communication with whomever this anonymous group is that is running the Arena and spending our money?

[Ann 263]

1 hour ago, MsKreed said:

What a forward thinking plan!!

Thank goodness we now have this particular group of people on the IDA board that has put together a group that can come up with ideas that no one has thought of before.

What was forgotten was available parking.  Yes, there’s a parking garage in the City that no one wants to use.  The Clemens Center built next to a parkway that’s used as a race track for vehicles  speeding through the City.   Try crossing that, day or night, to get to the Center for an evening show.   All poorly designed by “experts”.  
Tear the Arena down, set aside parking space, then build smaller buildings for retail, restaurants, bakeries,  and other small speciality businesses to draw people to the area.  

[Hal 341]

Key words… Touted as a Civic Center . And 25 years later , still Touting and we are still Doubting … 25 years later ! 

 

[Adam 373]

so am i to understand, the group of "professionals" has yet to be identified?

[MsKreed 1,178]

10 hours ago, Adam said:

so am i to understand, the group of "professionals" has yet to be identified?

I stand corrected. I found this list of names from August .

I missed it and hadn't heard any names since Margeson had discussed it in June.

So with Margerson still being the "spokesperson" in the most recent interview, I guess I figured they are laying low. 

[Adam 373]

14 hours ago, MsKreed said:

I stand corrected. I found this list of names from August .

I missed it and hadn't heard any names since Margeson had discussed it in June.

So with Margerson still being the "spokesperson" in the most recent interview, I guess I figured they are laying low. 

laying low is a BIG issue; each one of them should be out in front informing the public of what they are going to do different than the last 20+ years.....i was asking only because if they were not announced, some letters were fixing to go out

 

[TTL News 308]

In this week's Guest View at ElmiraTelegram.com, County Legislator Lawana Morse offers her thoughts on the Arena and what changed her mind to vote in support of funding out of ARP funds.

Read it here.

[Hal 341]

Respectfully, I am ever so slightly confused here . “At current, the arena is owned by the IDA (not the county) “ . So , the IDA is a County  sanctioned private entity or a straight up part of the County Legislature itself ? Who funds the CCIDA to run and maintain the Arena ? 
 

Edited November 28, 2023 by Hal

[TTL News 308]

The following was written by Seth Adams, owner of the Werdenberg building on the corner of Water and Main, in response to Legislator Morse's column ( reposted here with permission 😞

Quote

Thanks for posting this, Elmira Telegram. For what it's worth, I will post my unedited rebuttal here, with apologies for the lack of brevity (to paraphrase what Mark Twain once said, "If I'd had more time I'd have written a shorter letter"):

I understand it, as this story is old. It has been played out across the country and is still being played out by local governments who wish to get their revitalization efforts to hit on all cylinders to become the positive feedback loop desired. That is, to hit their stride where success builds on success, because newcomers are attracted by the activity, see opportunity, and choose to invest, doing the work themselves. The community and the government are of one accord; they have agreed on their blueprint, and their job becomes that of simply reviewing plans as it relates to that blueprint, building standards etc. In a word: executing.

For over 20 years since the prevailing wisdom was to demolish the north half of a central city block, scrubbing from existence not only just a few more of the scarce-yet-standing-after-the-flood-of-'72 historic building stock, but that which included icons such as Tommy Hilfiger's first store People's Place, a movie theatre, and shared parking among other structures -- it appears more than ever that the legacy leaders of the arena project are still dug in, vested and viewing a sports arena as a "be all and end all" attraction in what today otherwise stands since 2016 as Elmira's hard-won National Commercial Historic District at Main & Water St. 2016 was also the watershed year that the City's application for the state's first round of Downtown Revitalization Initiative funds was successful. That application included the Historic Werdenberg Building Project among many others to support the application, and was successful in receiving the 10MM award for the various projects. Through the past 7 years since the award, through project completions, pandemic, including a few loose ends still dangling, the main purpose of the state's DRI program was and is two-fold: notably, it carries a state mandate to re-zone the target area to mixed-use, laying the groundwork for re-building a downtown core business district from the inside out, and in to a vibrant, livable-walkable and yes-if-we're-lucky --lovable-- environment. In the case of Elmira's downtown, the projects largely were in support of the higher education institutions in the city, notably at the time on the wish list-- the new Lake Erie College of Medicine, which was at the time slated to sit just 4 blocks from this notable city center and Historic District, where significant local, state and private investment were just beginning ....to scratch the surface of moving the downtown core forward as a thriving place that will attract businesses and residents alike. A successful 21st Century model --according to the Urban Land Institute-- drawing on the wisdom of walkable cities in earlier times, being played out by hundreds of cities small and large across these United States for over 30 years.

I understand it.

I understand continuing to invest in assets already on the ground. I'm in historic preservation. More than just a business, it's a passion born of a love of community and especially in championing "the underdog" Southern Tier where I grew up. Over nearly 30 years my work has taken me to distressed city centers as varied in size as Fort Worth, Texas where I cut my "development" teeth in the early-1990's, to Corning-Elmira.

I will respectfully beg to differ with this legislator's perspective, in the notion of "I want to have hope that something good can happen by shifting the focus to a more usable community center...." and the notion that tourism is the be all and end all of what makes an attractive city and accomplishes that secret sauce of just what such cities need to achieve --to succeed. A city and community that doesn't have just attractions, but IS attractive to the extent that people not only want to visit, but to LIVE. To work. To invest in a home. To raise a family. To try their chances at building a business. Elmira and the Finger Lakes Region of New York is one of the most beautiful places in the world, with so much going for it. World class healthcare education and healthcare centers on the rise; modestly growing employment. Yet....in the 2020 Census, Elmira continues to show population loss at the expense of other regional cities.

I understand it. But why?

It is already well understood in the development world that while tourism is a worthwhile goal, it is not what long-term community building is all about and certainly does little to do the real magic of achieving the holy grail: that is, the challenge of re-building the tax base that moves a community forward from the negative doom loop of decline to that of a positive feedback loop of growth. "Hope" is indeed essential to life, but it is not a business plan. Nor has tourism fully filled struggling or dark storefronts. What is (a plan)?

With limited resources, it stands to reason that a laser-like focused plan in a targeted district creates the largest visible impact, leveraging private investment to work in tandem with local government to make things happen. With so much need for new and updated housing across the country and our state's many supportive programs out there to encourage single and multi-family development, my answer to this question, no matter how many times I challenge my thinking, arrives at: Housing. Housing brings people and people need things; like food, clothing, entertainment, a local insurance office etc...to live. These are the customers that fill the storefronts. Housing brings people, and people are what MAKE and grow--a community. 

I understand the history and my sympathies are with the people of the community and local government that have struggled with this since it was built. I operate a building and still support the district and Arena in spirit and through our tax dollars. Yet, putting another $1MM+ in to a tourism centered sports/events complex for short tourist visits in a city center while walking away from shovel-ready historic preservation housing projects the district needs to grow, makes absolutely no sense whatsoever in this developer's eyes. Other than through community development experience, I arrive at this conclusion because-- the complex has had over 20 years to prove itself, and offers nothing as a solution to the long-term challenge (it needs customers and supporting businesses; that is, a viable commercial district). 

I do understand it--and why we're here. But what could an independent appraiser and planner envision as the "best and highest use" for the poorly planned arena site that lacks parking and staging sufficient for even its own operations?

A taxable, ready for prime-time curb to curb mixed-use project of commercial and affordable, 55+ and market rate domiciles that fills the remaining (parking) capacity of Centertown garage and allows a synergistic re-connection to the adjacent historic structures that front Water St.....and on to a vibrant and walkable 21st Century Historic District -- the growing City of Elmira, NY. Infill projects only need apply!

 

 

[Lawana Morse 55]

18 hours ago, Hal said:

Respectfully, I am ever so slightly confused here . “At current, the arena is owned by the IDA (not the county) “ . So , the IDA is a County  sanctioned private entity or a straight up part of the County Legislature itself ? Who funds the CCIDA to run and maintain the Arena ? 
 

Here is a publications regarding the background of the IDA. It is from May of 2006. 
Industrial Development Agencies in New York State: Background, Issues and Recommendations (ny.gov)

The IDA is not a county entity. The IDA organization is a state creation. They have oversite from the OSC. Each IDA has a governing board and a director that is in charge of the day to day operations. 

"Industrial Development Agencies (IDAs) are public benefit corporations originally authorized by the Industrial Development Agency Act of 1969 and governed by the provisions of Article 18-A of the General Municipal Law. Since that time, 177 IDAs have been legislatively authorized and 115 remain active today." (At time of publication of above document)

The county gives organizational funding to the IDA each year just as funding is given to CCE, STC, Soil and Water, etc. (You can see this information on the budget overview portion of the 2024 county budget.) 
IDAs receive funding from the state. They also can issue bonds, hold a lease, and "typically maintain their operations by charging various fees to the businesses that participate in their projects".

I am unsure if the IDAs are able to go after grant funding themselves also but they do work with other organizations that can obtain project grants. 

I fully admit that I am still learning and gathering information on the IDA organizations across the state and how they have actually helped the communities. Anyone that has resources and articles that give the facts of the IDAs across the state, please feel free to email me links. 

[Hal 341]

Question answered . 
Thank You Ms Morse .