Town Of Horseheads Sends "Cease And Desist" Letter To Local Venue

[KarenK 383]

4 hours ago, Adam said:

"Just to put everyone at ease….ALL scheduled shows are still a go including Blue October next Wednesday..."

now see post like this make me wonder if the C&D order has been lifted in the month since it was actually placed?

if not, its one of two things: breaking the law further, daring the town to take them to court which can either endanger the venue's future completely or set up a David v Goliath mentality which draws more support(money).

Would not put it past the "Church" or someone affiliated to have been the source of potential tip off to the town, which again translates into "screw the gubmint" mentality thereby increasing the funds flowing into the church pockets.

If the C&D has been lifted, why not just tell folks that are "trashing" the place and end it? of course no publicity is bad publicity

And then i see quotes like below and "the news only told half the story" well tell the whole story then and get it over with, but again i think the Pastor may be angling for a fight and/or increase of funds from parishioners...something just plainly stinks

"We were issued a cease and desist order for anything not church related. This issue with this is that technically a town can’t dictate what is and isn’t “church”. Our attorneys have been working with town officials since this order was issued. This is a flat out attempt to take down The L."

I think it's probably more like the lawyers involved determined they can continue to operate until it's sorted out in court or otherwise.

[Adam 373]

2 minutes ago, KarenK said:

I think it's probably more like the lawyers involved determined they can continue to operate until it's sorted out in court or otherwise.

i had to read about C&D apparently there is either a letter or an order. the Letter seems to have no real legal authority attached to it, it is more of a warning. the Order on the other hand is issued by a Court and has legal Authority...since they are continuing the events i assume it was a letter issued.

looking at the property: 116 Breesport Road Horseheads NY

Imatter Fitness LLC Registered Agent Scott Lowmaster

Papa Jax LLC Registered Agent Scott Lowmaster

IMATTER Foundation Inc. Domestic Not for Profit, 

Journey Center Inc. Domestic Not for Profit Registered Agent Robert Rundall ( though Guidestar Lists Scott Lowmaster as Principal Officer)Specialized Education Institutions/Schools for Visually or Hearing Impaired, Learning Disabled (B28)

Journey Church Incorporated this and one above seem to be same but different EIN#

Endless Love Barber Studio Domestic LLC registered Agent: UNITED STATES CORPORATION AGENTS, INC. ( this one doesnt lead anywhere, linked to LegalZoom)

IMATTER Foundation Inc. Domestic Not for Profit: on guidestar it is listed as David King executive with Mr. Lowmaster on Board of directors this location is 12 canal street Big Flats

there is no record to be found, by me anyway, for The "L" on guidestar, NYS DOS, OpenGov.

So the property main Building are Not for profit but the 3 possibly 4 business located there appear to be for profit

 

Man i Love/Hate a mystery

 

 

[MsKreed 1,179]

10 hours ago, KarenK said:

I think it's probably more like the lawyers involved determined they can continue to operate until it's sorted out in court or otherwise.

Yeah. Probably the same premise as when a landlord is required to send an "eviction letter", but no actual eviction proceedings will begin until a later date after it's established that the recipient does not intend to comply and the issue is disputed. 

[Rod 18]

I seen on facebook the guy who runs the L has started a new company Bunce Entertainment

[MsKreed 1,179]

This whole thing sort of reminds me of the kerfuffle when His Tabernacle was “gifted” the Heights Theater.....lots of speculation & debate over what types of services and events would be allowed under the umbrella of “ministry” and “community activities”.

 

Aside from local residential/church zoning questions.... the facility is likely subject to "Unrelated Business Income Taxes" (aka UBIT)

Quote

Regularly conducted. Business activities of an exempt organization ordinarily are considered regularly conducted if they show a frequency and continuity, and are pursued in a manner similar to comparable commercial activities of nonexempt organizations. For example, a hospital auxiliary's operation of a sandwich stand for 2 weeks at a state fair would not be the regular conduct of a trade or CAUTION ! business. The stand would not compete with similar facilities that a nonexempt organization would ordinarily operate year-round. However, operating a commercial parking lot every Saturday, year-round, would be the regular conduct of a trade or business.

 

Dual use of assets or facilities. If an asset or facility necessary to the conduct of exempt functions is also used in commercial activities, its use for exempt functions doesn’t, by itself, make the commercial activities a related trade or business. The test, as discussed earlier, is whether the activities contribute importantly to the accomplishment of exempt purposes. For example, a museum has a theater auditorium designed for showing educational films in connection with its program of public education in the arts and sciences. The theater is a principal feature of the museum and operates continuously while the museum is open to the public. If the organization also operates the theater as a motion picture theater for the public when the museum is closed, the activity is an unrelated trade or business

 

Tax and financial records for exempt organizations are public record. It would be interesting if someone from the Town or the media requested them from all the entities involved in activities at that location.

Edited March 21, 2023 by MsKreed

[Adam 373]

10 hours ago, Rod said:

I seen on facebook the guy who runs the L has started a new company Bunce Entertainment

saw this as well, makes one wonder if there hasnt been skeetchy stuff afoot, and this one is jumping ship due to potential heat or illumination?

i did also see on FB, a post for a catering company offering reduced rates for booking events at the L, sadly i went to read more into it before screen shotting it, now cannot find the post

 

Edited March 22, 2023 by Adam

[Kevin 334]

On 3/21/2023 at 8:31 PM, Adam said:

saw this as well, makes one wonder if there hasnt been skeetchy stuff afoot, and this one is jumping ship due to potential heat or illumination?

i did also see on FB, a post for a catering company offering reduced rates for booking events at the L, sadly i went to read more into it before screen shotting it, now cannot find the post

 

In the video he said he is still in charge of events at the L, but the fairgrounds and new business now allows him to book bigger events. 

[Adam 373]

5 hours ago, Kevin said:

In the video he said he is still in charge of events at the L, but the fairgrounds and new business now allows him to book bigger events. 

so does anyone have an answer as to WHAT the L is?. in all y looking, i cannot seem to find any sort of business, llc or the like under that name. if it is an extension of the "church" one would think that would cause more issues as far as its exemption status

 

[Kevin 334]

21 hours ago, Adam said:

so does anyone have an answer as to WHAT the L is?. in all y looking, i cannot seem to find any sort of business, llc or the like under that name. if it is an extension of the "church" one would think that would cause more issues as far as its exemption status

 

I think they are more running it through the iMatter foundation than the church. Almost everything they put on lists the foundation as a sponsor.

[TTL News 308]

[Ann 263]

38 minutes ago, Elmira Telegram said:

Should prove interesting.

[Adam 373]

just wondering if anyone has sorted out the commercial operations from the "church" related activities?

the L certainly seems to have its stuff together regarding a business plan and has continually been putting on packed shows, issue is though, if it is a business, it should NOT enjoy tax shelters and advantages under the guise of church functions

[JustAGuy 12]

I guess this guy is making out well for not paying taxes for many months. Heard they started paying them awhile back but who knows if that's true they still made out for quite some time not doing so. Wonder if that's why they made the fuss about the certain parking going on even though they have no actually authority to enforce what they wanted. That call is to a higher power. 

[Chris 2,161]

Uh oh:

Quote

HORSEHEADS, N.Y. (WETM) – Changes are coming to the popular concert venue “The L” on Breesport Road after a months-long dispute with the Town of Horseheads over proper zoning requirements and complaints from residents. “The L” is run by the “Journey Church” next door. 18 News has learned “The L” has lost its tax-exempt status. 18 News also learned the head Pastor at Journey Church, Scott Lowmaster, has resigned over what he described as “A lot of fighting. A lot of crazy crazy stuff.”

See the rest here.

[Chris 2,161]

“As we reported last month, the “Journey Church” lost part of its tax exemption because of the money it was making from “The L” concert venue. The church, which also runs other businesses, including a barber shop and cafe, has been involved in a dispute with the Town of Horseheads over zoning permits since February. The new pastor at “Journey Church”, Reverend Kevin O’Shell, told the Town Planning Board the church is looking at moving the remaining shows at “The L.”
 

Source

[LocalSportsGuy 43]

Honestly good. If you can't do it right, shut it down. It's not fair to local venues or businesses. It's sad that Lowmaster and Dunce didn't do this right from the start but I hope this showcases not just the need for a small venue like this, but that it could work and be popular in the area. Hopefully someone comes around, opens a real location, and does it the right way. 

[Chris 2,161]

The place is definitely an asset to the area, without a doubt. So in that respect the outcry from people who support The L are correct.

But it has to be done on a level playing field and all on the up and up. Connecting it to a church in the hopes of not having to pay taxes is simply inappropriate on more than one level.

[Chris 2,161]

Passing by yesterday I noticed all the flyers and posters are removed from the front windows. However it looks like Ace Frehley was there this weekend. So I don't know if they're trying to fly under the radar, reached an agreement or what. 

[LocalSportsGuy 43]

8 hours ago, Chris said:

Passing by yesterday I noticed all the flyers and posters are removed from the front windows. However it looks like Ace Frehley was there this weekend. So I don't know if they're trying to fly under the radar, reached an agreement or what. 

I saw Bunce's facebook video where yet again he keeps trying to downplay the reports as just "made up rumors" which is pretty crazy since all the news reports say they reach out to Adam for comment and he always never responses. It's like he's trying to make it about himself and control the narrative when there's really no reason to do that. 

Edited October 30, 2023 by LocalSportsGuy

[Adam 373]

On 10/30/2023 at 6:04 PM, LocalSportsGuy said:

I saw Bunce's facebook video where yet again he keeps trying to downplay the reports as just "made up rumors" which is pretty crazy since all the news reports say they reach out to Adam for comment and he always never responses. It's like he's trying to make it about himself and control the narrative when there's really no reason to do that. 

one way to fill the seats, and cash flowing until the end of the year

[LocalSportsGuy 43]

https://www.mytwintiers.com/news-cat/journey-church-ending-the-l-concerts-events/?utm_medium=referral&utm_source=facebook.com&utm_campaign=socialflow&fbclid=IwAR3EFKgvtSOA0tJt0eK9CAccOfEEdUgblmX6GjMBNp1PcwWbVkOy4uksEBE

So to basically confirm what was already reported "The L" is no more. 

[MsKreed 1,179]

25 minutes ago, LocalSportsGuy said:

So to basically confirm what was already reported "The L" is no more. 

So the rumors, rumors and more rumors were......factual reports?

[LocalSportsGuy 43]

5 minutes ago, MsKreed said:

So the rumors, rumors and more rumors were......factual reports?

[Chris 2,161]

What kills me about this is a “confirmation bias” of sorts from the public. It may as well say: “We realize they used a loophole to avoid paying taxes and conducting business like everyone else has to, but we liked this place so it’s okay.”

[MsKreed 1,179]

1 hour ago, Chris said:

What kills me about this is a “confirmation bias” of sorts from the public. It may as well say: “We realize they used a loophole to avoid paying taxes and conducting business like everyone else has to, but we liked this place so it’s okay.”

I agree, for a lot of people there’s an instinctive compulsion to defend and rationalize things we enjoy.  Like the Arena, it seems like fans of The L are dismissing/justifying the factual issues of tax status, zoning and business permits. 

 

And some are sticking to their guns that the noise complaints were an excuse that the Town just made up to go after them.