Vaccine Mandates For Health Workers & The Possible Fallout

[Chris 2,161]

55 minutes ago, MsKreed said:

It does seem like you've expressly opted not to note any distinction between reasonable or unreasonable "choices" not to vaccinate.  Copy that. 

Actually no, I didn’t intend at all. Internet miscommunications strikes again. 

What I’m saying is the jackasses running around spreading misinformation and conspiracy theories and paranoia as “reasons”? Tough.

If someone doesn’t want a shot for health reasons, or religious reasons, or any reasons any sane person could deem reasonable and sincere? 

C’mon, I'm not a complete asshole. 

[Chris 2,161]

1 hour ago, MsKreed said:

I'm not entirely clear if the STFU and aversion to "woe is me" stories is confined to conspiracy-based anti-vaxx zealots....or whether anti-vax B.S. statistics and "facts" that aren't backed up extends to those with medical contraindications to vaccine ingredients.

I’m pretty sure you know where I stand on that. 

[MsKreed 1,178]

3 minutes ago, Chris said:

I’m pretty sure you know where I stand on that. 

Honestly, no. I don't.

I'd recalled that you'd made some acknowledgement to medical exclusions in the EARLIER TOPIC pertaining to mandates for healthcare workers, but once you created this separate topic, not so much. You've seemed more like bordering on unilateral contempt the unvaccinated....even after I'd tried to make allusions to medical contraindications/exemptions at least three times.  

Under a different format (like social media), your remarks "here" would pretty much be the exact stuff I'd filter or put on "snooze".

 

[Chris 2,161]

13 minutes ago, MsKreed said:

I'd recalled that you'd made some acknowledgement to medical exclusions in the EARLIER TOPIC pertaining to mandates for healthcare workers, but once you created this separate topic, not so much. You've seemed more like bordering on unilateral contempt the unvaccinated....even after I'd tried to make allusions to medical contraindications/exemptions at least three times.  

And as I said above, there is obviously a misunderstanding about my intent or I’ve poorly communicated it. Either way, that is NOT my intent, as posted at least twice ( now three times ) in two separate topics.

 

[Adam 373]

1 hour ago, MsKreed said:

Honestly, no. I don't.

I'd recalled that you'd made some acknowledgement to medical exclusions in the EARLIER TOPIC pertaining to mandates for healthcare workers, but once you created this separate topic, not so much. You've seemed more like bordering on unilateral contempt the unvaccinated....even after I'd tried to make allusions to medical contraindications/exemptions at least three times.  

Under a different format (like social media), your remarks "here" would pretty much be the exact stuff I'd filter or put on "snooze".

 

its not those declining for reasons pertaining to allergies, ethical/religious( IF tissue from aborted fetuses is used)....its the ones claiming the shot makes you able to stick magnets to your arm, caused a loved one to have bypass surgery for clogged arteries, or that God will protect from the virus(all recent local statements btw). those that use information from blatantly skewed sources, dont bother to look up information and/or cherry pick items from reputable sources to make their point while the info is out of context( Legislator that Chairs Health &human services committee is huge offender). These examples are irksome in that too many people are too lazy to look at information that just might prove them wrong or inexplicably think if its on the internet with thousands of likes, its gotta be legit.

Where the contempt, for me anyway, comes in is when folks such as the above outright refuse to follow simple medical precautions(masks are proven to decrease transmissions and vax is proven to decrease morbidity and mortality in covid infections), treat masking like its a march to the gas chambers, then when/if they get covid, make a beeline to the nearest hospital taking up precious resources that they might not have needed had they actually listened to those same professionals they so mistrusted previously. You end up on a vent because you(general sense) were too stupid or paranoid to wear a damn mask at the minimum, and someone else cannot be treated for covid or get life-saving surgery, then maybe those genetics are better off the way of the dinosaurs.

In short there is growing contempt for stupid, not sane and reasonable caution unfortunately the 'net sometimes masks those distinctions

[KarenK 383]

I had someone tell me the other day that they won't get the vax (and I did not ask them if they did or didn't have it) because of the tracing chips in them.  

[Adam 373]

4 hours ago, Chris said:

I have to confess my knee jerk response was to feel like they're abandoning not only the patients who need them, but perhaps more importantly their co-workers who will be left to pick up the slack. I once worked with nurses who regularly went without meal breaks and were practically wetting their pants they'd been holding it so long. Why? Because there was work to be done, someone needed help more than they needed to eat or relieve themselves. So to see health care workers even threatening to walk off the job irritates me. You're leaving your team holding the bag, if nothing else. 

problem here is that all too often "patient abandonment" gets thrown around as a means to quash any sort of straying from company intent. too few breaks, too many patients, mandated overtime of floating to units with no real knowledge of their services ( a nurse is a nurse has been a regular quote)....at  some point it must be seen that hospital administrators are the ones abandoning, if not endangering the patients. im not anti-vax but am surely anti-mandate. it isnt right that ones livelihood(which they are already taxed for the pleasure of securing) is threatened in such a flippant and possibly illegal manner. if a mass exodus is what it takes for those in authority to see they in fact do not have cart blanche over us and force a correction, then so be it 

[Chris 2,161]

I don’t disagree in the least. I’m capable of overcoming my initial knee jerk responses to things and sorting them out more logically. 

Again, despite other shades of grey scenarios I may play out in my head, I am against the way this was rolled out. Especially when other professions such as  those in education have the option to undergo random, perhaps regular, testing. 

[Chris 2,161]

13 minutes ago, KarenK said:

I had someone tell me the other day that they won't get the vax (and I did not ask them if they did or didn't have it) because of the tracing chips in them.  

And that’s just one of the numerous ignorant things I read and hear that drives me insane. 

[KarenK 383]

5 minutes ago, Chris said:

And that’s just one of the numerous ignorant things I read and hear that drives me insane. 

I literally had no words.  I've read it before a few places but that's the first time someone I knew said that out loud.  Me having no words is not something that happens often.  😄

[MsKreed 1,178]

2 hours ago, Adam said:

In short there is growing contempt for stupid, not sane and reasonable caution unfortunately the 'net sometimes masks those distinctions

Unfortunately, this is too true. 

There's a mob mentality, exacerbated from Cuomo to Hochul....and POTUS that seems to make it acceptable (even noble) to dismiss reasonable caution (as well as sincerely held convictions, IF the fetal tissue allegation is true).....and just scream "safe and effective" at a louder volume.

As ignorant and combative as are theories like tracking chips and transhumanist DNA alterations insane BS....some of that 'masked' distinction (aka thoughtless omission/dismissal) of sane rational concerns comes off as equally ignorant and hostile for someone within that 'rational concern' realm.

Bombardment of rhetoric from the anti anti-vax mob mentality already drastically compouds the stress as Ive worked with my allergy specialists to determine the safest course of action.

 If my job was on the line in addition to that anxiety and harassment?

Quitting would absolutely be the best and healthiest choice (for mental well being). 

[MsKreed 1,178]

11 hours ago, Adam said:

im not anti-vax but am surely anti-mandate. it isnt right that ones livelihood(which they are already taxed for the pleasure of securing) is threatened in such a flippant and possibly illegal manner.

Sadly....There’s a growing trend that insists we can’t be one and not the other....because those two notions are completely synonymous: 

When that distinction has been offered by Moss or Strange, there’s a former local elected official incessantly attacking them who appears convinced (as are many) of the above definition....that anti-mandate is the exact same concept as anti-vax. 

Diatribes and obtuseness displayed by the "mandates with no alternatives" adherents frequently come from individuals with as much authority (even greater authority at state & federal levels) and/or public influence as the current HHS Chair....and are as dangerous and divisive as the ignorant rants coming from him.

Edited September 15, 2021 by MsKreed

[Adam 373]

23 hours ago, Chris said:

I don’t disagree in the least. I’m capable of overcoming my initial knee jerk responses to things and sorting them out more logically. 

Again, despite other shades of grey scenarios I may play out in my head, I am against the way this was rolled out. Especially when other professions such as  those in education have the option to undergo random, perhaps regular, testing. 

thats because those professions have more powerful and well connected Unions

[Chris 2,161]

18 minutes ago, Adam said:

thats because those professions have more powerful and well connected Unions

The CWA is fighting the mandates for the people they represent at AOMC. 

[Chris 2,161]

( And for what it’s worth, I don’t remember the last time we hit two pages in a post so fast! )

[MsKreed 1,178]

11 hours ago, Adam said:

thats because those professions have more powerful and well connected Unions

I don’t know that’s the root cause. I think the broad authority that NYS DOH has to pass controlling regulations has more to do with it than union force.   

Healthcare employees in NYS public service were singled out in the original order (before expanding to private providers)....and represented by the same unions as those in other jobs titles with testing options.

The federal mandate for ALL federal employees and contractor, as well as private employers over 100 workers applies to private workforce with and without union representation, but still has vax or test options. 

[TTL News 308]

In preparation for Monday's vaccination deadline, Governor Kathy Hochul today released a comprehensive plan to address preventable staffing shortages in hospitals and other health care facilities statewide.

"We are still in a battle against COVID to protect our loved ones, and we need to fight with every tool at our disposal," Governor Hochul said. "I am monitoring the staffing situation closely, and we have a plan to increase our health care workforce and help alleviate the burdens on our hospitals and other health care facilities. I commend all of the health care workers who have stepped up to get themselves vaccinated, and I urge all remaining health care workers who are unvaccinated to do so now so they can continue providing care."

The plan includes preparing to sign an executive order if necessary to declare a state of emergency that seeks to increase workforce supply and allow qualified health care professionals licensed in other states or countries, recent graduates, retired and formerly practicing health care professionals to practice in New York State.

The Department of Labor has issued guidance to clarify that workers who are terminated because of refusal to be vaccinated are not eligible for unemployment insurance absent a valid doctor-approved request for medical accommodation.

Other options include deployment of medically-trained National Guard members, and partnering with the federal government to deploy Disaster Medical Assistance Teams (DMATs) to assist local health and medical systems. Additionally, Governor Hochul plans to work with the federal government and other state leaders to explore ways to expedite visa requests for medical professionals.

As of September 22, 84% of all hospital employees in New York State were fully vaccinated. As of September 23, 81% of staff at all adult care facilities and 77% of all staff at nursing home facilities in New York State were fully vaccinated. 

According to the regulation issued by the State Department of Health, all health care workers in New York State, at hospitals and nursing homes, are to be vaccinated against COVID-19 with the first dose received by Monday, September 27, and staff at other covered entities including home care, hospice, and adult care facilities are to be vaccinated by October 7. The regulation also applies to all out of state and contract medical staff who practice in New York State.

[TTL News 308]

New Today:

Quote

 

UTICA, N.Y. (AP) — A federal judge ruled Tuesday that New York must continue to allow health care workers to seek exemptions from a statewide vaccine mandate on religious grounds as a lawsuit challenging the requirement proceeds.

Judge David Hurd in Utica had issued a temporary restraining order a month ago after 17 doctors, nurses and other health professionals claimed in a lawsuit that their rights would be violated with a vaccine mandate that disallowed the exemptions.

 

Source

[Kevin 334]

All those that have suddenly found religion or have a chiropractor friend give them an medical exemption do realize that doesn't give them a free pass?

If the hospital or Dr. Office cannot or is unwilling to do reasonable accommodations than they are still SOL. 

[Hal 341]

13 hours ago, Kevin said:

All those that have suddenly found religion or have a chiropractor friend give them an medical exemption do realize that doesn't give them a free pass?

If the hospital or Dr. Office cannot or is unwilling to do reasonable accommodations than they are still SOL. 

According to a recently retired Health Care Worker , who by the way is well studied on the subject of exemptions , it seems it is all in the way the wording is done in the exemption application. This was proven out by a number of applications previously denied then reapplied with the correct Verbiage ( call it “trigger words “ ) and subsequently accepted by the hospital in question. 

[MsKreed 1,178]

I imagine there will be some employers who may need to deny an accommodation for "undue hardship" for business operations.....

But if it's a true hardship, then it wouldn't give a free pass for anyone - including a medical exemption from a qualified allergy specialist or for a valid "sincerely held religious belief" that opposes using fetal tissue.

[Jack 67]

To my knowledge any and all “reasonable accommodations” and “religious exemptions” request sent in by my co-workers have been denied by our central office. 
 

and every “I’ll quit! They won’t force me!” have all received the vaccine. 
 

sure, some retired early and the conspiracy theorist quit. Its a lot quieter without them around. My mind is at ease. 

[KarenK 383]

It has become a non-issue for me under the Biden "large" business mandate. They have made the decision to close our office down when our lease expires June 2022.  They have waived our mandatory January return to office in Elmira entirely unless of course we want to. There are people who choose to go to the office and have been for the past 6 months or so. 

One more trip in sometime between now and June to return broken equipment, pick up the new work from home equipment package and that is that. 

It's honestly just a bit bittersweet.

[Chris 2,161]

With the cost of gas though, working from home has its advantages!

[KarenK 383]

35 minutes ago, Chris said:

With the cost of gas though, working from home has its advantages!

Yep, plus the return to work in the middle of January was not thrilling me.  I'm sure that would have been our snowstorm.  lol