Questions After Announcement That Alvernaz No Longer Police Chief

[MsKreed 1,179]

9 hours ago, Chris said:

I went back and re-read the article. It has been edited, but still I could have read it wrong and assumed incorrectly that Chief Alvernaz responded to the scene of the call.

Alvernaz’s statement about refusing to compromise his beliefs leaves me extremely suspicious about what he was asked or told to do in relation to this call.

No....you were right, you did read that he responded to the call.

It wasn't in the article, it was in the actual memo from Collins (and I'd skimmed right past it reading the article text instead). 

Edited February 26, 2023 by MsKreed

[Hal 341]

Having just watched the body cam footage of the actions leading up to Chief Alvernez being terminated I see nothing here that was out of line … nothing ! If by him using an unmarked car to block a subject , not hit the suspect as he Jumped over the car , I find nothing wrong in that . As far as why Alvernez was on the call this happened after four 911 hangups which it appears he was called in to talk with the residents that claimed their phone was malfunctioning and the calls did not come from there . So , the malfunction of the phone was to make 911 calls … bullshit ! I still applaud Mr Alvernez for having the courage of his convictions to take the termination ! Bet ole Mike C and Dan M didn’t see that coming . But take a look at the cam footage and you tell me . And kudos to Journalist Dubina for digging into this cluster and keeping us up to date on the Facts ! 

 

Edited March 29, 2023 by Hal

[MsKreed 1,179]

I agree.....I watched the entire footage (Found HERE) and read each of the Incident reports HERE

Using the car to try to slow the guy down wasn't unreasonable and did not cause the guy's injury. 

The situation before he ran was handled exactly as it should have been:

I am very glad the Chief insisted on confirming there was no one inside who needed assistance. 

If I were being attacked or confined against my will.....and called 911 but had to hang up before relaying the danger I was in, I sure as hell hope the PD would respond this way! It would be complete negligence or incompetence if responding officers simply shrugged & left because someone (potential attacker) just told them to go away.  

[Hal 341]

37 minutes ago, MsKreed said:

f I were being attacked or confined against my will.....and called 911 but had to hang up before relaying the danger I was in, I sure as hell hope the PD would respond this way! It would be complete negligence or incompetence if responding officers simply shrugged & left because someone (potential attacker) just told them to go away

Quite frankly I wasn’t even thinking of that aspect MsKreed ! I was more into trying to see what he did on scene to warrant his being hauled before the Taman… sorry the City Council . Thank you for the vids and reports as It being on WETM it was over before I could process anymore than I did . 

[MsKreed 1,179]

Anyone ignoring an SOS was a real irritant for me working in the prison system as a civilian when protocol wasn’t followed.....even at “safe” li’l old Monterey Shock with (allegedly) non-violent inmates.  

At the Hill we had personal alarms, and in all prisons if any phone is left off the hook it alerts the Watch Command. Any number of situations could accidentally send an alert or bump a receiver off its cradle. But no matter how clumsy an employee may be or how regularly they may accidentally set it off....simply calling the office that sent the alert and getting a verbal “OK” over the phone was not sufficient.

Security needed to go to the location and lay eyes on them. As they should. Period.

[Chris 2,161]

I still fail to see any wrong doing by Chief Alvernaz, and continue to have a hunch it boils down to WHO was involved on the scene that day, and what someone was or I should say IS trying to sweep under the rug. 

What’s more, it seems as though public opinion leans heavily in Chief Alvernaz’s favor. With the exception of the local criminal class and full time social media trolls such as “R.B.” From his parents’ basement. 

[MsKreed 1,179]

I think it's very possible that Alvernaz's integrity and standards have ruffled feathers and officials that that felt threatened wanted him gone. 

If so, perhaps this call/defendant were just the first thing someone thought they could make some flimsy case out of and use the "internal investigation" as an excuse to ask for his resignation.

[Chris 2,161]

Here's the video from WETM:

 

I can't really see anything wrong here. The only thing, ( and I have no problem with it ) is someone may have complained about Chief Alvernaz pulling up on to the sidewalk like that to get in the way of the person running. But as far as I know, that is an accepted use of a police vehicle. 

I've seen some people mention the knee in the suspect's back. Again, that's normal and I wouldn't consider that excessive at all. 

[MsKreed 1,179]

Watching the raw video footage at regular speed at a distance, it's hard to see the suspect's encounter with the unmarked vehicle clearly. 

If someone was trying to allege that the Chief struck the suspect, then I would hope a competent and thorough "internal investigation" would have entailed some technology that zooming in and slowing frames (like WETM had the ability to do).

 

Their clearer "close-up" video clip confirms that the suspect was off the ground to jump the hood before Alvernaz's vehicle reached him.

Instead of stopping or veering off as the vehicle pulled up, the fleeing suspect either brushed over the hood while he was jumping, or cleared it completely. 

 

 

[Chris 2,161]

9 minutes ago, MsKreed said:

Instead of stopping or veering off as the vehicle pulled up, the fleeing suspect either brushed over the hood while he was jumping, or cleared it completely. 

Sounds to me like there was no contact. You can hear someone ( perhaps Alvernaz )say, "I don't how in the hell you cleared that car."

[MsKreed 1,179]

7 minutes ago, Chris said:

Sounds to me like there was no contact. You can hear someone ( perhaps Alvernaz )say, "I don't how in the hell you cleared that car."

I'm doubtful there was contact, although one of the two reports seems to indicate one opinion was that he "attempted to jump the vehicle but fell"....and another said he "jumped and cleared the vehicle". The video doesn't "prove" one way or the other whether there was contact. Either way, both indicated that it was the suspect who took the jump.

 

I'd guess that the first was from the PO running with bodycam and the second was Alvernaz himself (who would have had a clear view from the driver's seat). 

 

I think the Chief will likely prevail in a wrongful termination suit. 

 

[Chris 2,161]

20 minutes ago, MsKreed said:

I think the Chief will likely prevail in a wrongful termination suit.

I think you're right, and I hope some skeletons fall out of the closet in the process. 

[KarenK 383]

2 hours ago, Chris said:

I think you're right, and I hope some skeletons fall out of the closet in the process. 

I still want to know what the "unprofessional" conduct towards the Mayor actually was.  Probably told him to stay out of police business.  lol

[KarenK 383]

2 hours ago, Chris said:

I think the Chief will likely prevail in a wrongful termination suit.

Was he terminated or did he end up resigning?  

[Chris 2,161]

4 hours ago, KarenK said:

Was he terminated or did he end up resigning? 

He was given the choice to be terminated or resign. He chose to be terminated. ( Thank you to the person who corrected me. It’s been one of those days! 

Edited March 30, 2023 by Chris
I had my facts wrong.

[Chris 2,161]

From WENY this evening: 

“…the reason why he was terminated was not because of this incident or what he did or didn't do. This incident prompted an investigation, it's what he did while the investigation was ongoing that caused his termination," Mayor Mandell said. 

When asked directly what rules or laws Alvernaz violated during the incident neither Mandell or Collins would comment. 

“The video that Chief Alvernaz pulls out his weapon at that time, his firearm, orders the individual to stop or he is going to quote, shoot him in the face. Once the individual is taken down and they were bringing him into custody Chief Alvernaz had his weapon next to the suspect. Once the suspect was under control chief Alvernaz took the weapon and re-holstered his weapon," Mandell said. 

 

The video also shows Alvernaz briefly drive his knee into the man's back, and sit on top of him as he handcuffs him. Based upon that video, it was determined an investigation into the incident was warranted, said Mandell.

According to Collins, Alvernaz's reaction to the investigation led to his termination. 

Source: https://www.weny.com/story/48653935/elmira-city-officials-discuss-why-former-police-chief-was-fired?utm_medium=social&utm_source=facebook_WENY_TV_News&fbclid=IwAR3L20uUIa6l0QimYUKEgdm2HeD3EtAsENUJgDc6JkQ0ZhdV6c73Ngc6PNQ

[Hal 341]

Mandell also stated that he himself had had plenty of training with guns … but has he had training in what to do with a weapon while securing a subject and you need both hands ? Shit happens in the heat of the moment , adrenalin is a bitch to control there Dan … something like being on camera trying to act the “professional “  Mayor ! 

[MsKreed 1,179]

So, when offering resignation or termination, Collins explicitly said the bodycam and incident it showed were relevant factors in the "determination". 

Now Mandell claims the "determination" was based solely on the Chief's conduct 're' the investigation. But then immediately pointed to (irrelevant?) minutiae from the bodycam, like drawing a weapon, and gawd forbid.....driving partially onto a lawn instead of just the sidewalk???

Backpedal much? LOL

Also....I replayed the video again and still can't hear any threat to "shoot him in the face" or anything other than ordering him to get on the ground.

I stand by my belief that Tony should prevail in a wrongful termination suit.

 

[Adam 373]

so for the record i am SO in Chief's corner on this....

at about 13 seconds in, you can here someone say "muffle...shoot you in the/your fuc*ing face"

the one PO says Nice jump, i dont know how you cleared that car, and, lmao, kid says thanks...

stretching the imagination, one MIGHT see Chief's demeanor as a bit aggressive in comparison to the other officers but all in all i would say that if more interactions went down like this( aside from complete cooperation) there would be a much more favorable view of policing in America.

im thinking collins/mandell were just waiting for an excuse to pounce and this poor example of one was their chance

i do see when chief knees the dude, he does set his weapon on the ground to cuff, then quickly holsters it....not sure thats a fireable or punishable though

 

 

[KarenK 383]

2 hours ago, Chris said:

From WENY this evening: 

“…the reason why he was terminated was not because of this incident or what he did or didn't do. This incident prompted an investigation, it's what he did while the investigation was ongoing that caused his termination," Mayor Mandell said. 

When asked directly what rules or laws Alvernaz violated during the incident neither Mandell or Collins would comment. 

“The video that Chief Alvernaz pulls out his weapon at that time, his firearm, orders the individual to stop or he is going to quote, shoot him in the face. Once the individual is taken down and they were bringing him into custody Chief Alvernaz had his weapon next to the suspect. Once the suspect was under control chief Alvernaz took the weapon and re-holstered his weapon," Mandell said. 

 

The video also shows Alvernaz briefly drive his knee into the man's back, and sit on top of him as he handcuffs him. Based upon that video, it was determined an investigation into the incident was warranted, said Mandell.

According to Collins, Alvernaz's reaction to the investigation led to his termination. 

Source: https://www.weny.com/story/48653935/elmira-city-officials-discuss-why-former-police-chief-was-fired?utm_medium=social&utm_source=facebook_WENY_TV_News&fbclid=IwAR3L20uUIa6l0QimYUKEgdm2HeD3EtAsENUJgDc6JkQ0ZhdV6c73Ngc6PNQ

What a crock of crap.  I watch and rewatched the video and never heard any threats to shoot anyone.   I wondered if the knee in the back was an issue but it was literally a few seconds. Just long enough to reposition himself.

I don't know if you can file for wrongful termination if you resign but there is definitely something shady going on with the city Admin right now.

[MsKreed 1,179]

1 minute ago, KarenK said:

I don't know if you can file for wrongful termination if you resign but there is definitely something shady going on with the city Admin right now.

He did not tender his resignation. In the audio tape a few weeks ago, Collins gave him the option of resigning and retaining some accrual payments or he'd be terminated - he (wisely) said "I'll take the termination".

 

8 minutes ago, Adam said:

at about 13 seconds in, you can here someone say "muffle...shoot you in the/your fuc*ing face"

I re-re-played and it sounds like you are correct, that seems to be the muffled comment as the bodycam PO approached. 

However...... before he alluded that it was a consideration in the termination, the Mayor said is wasn't: 

“…the reason why he was terminated was not because of this incident or what he did or didn't do. This incident prompted an investigation, it's what he did while the investigation was ongoing that caused his termination," Mayor Mandell said. 

The whole thing stinks of an administration that was looking for a chance to get rid of him and arrogantly assumed he'd resign when pressed to over a trivial excuse. His taking the termination hopefully screwed their plan.

[Adam 373]

there is certainly something stinky about this, read the documentation linked by Ms: an officer knows this to be residence of "redacted", so i wonder HOW they are known( buddy with an Admin or a repeat offender?)

person has History of rabbitting from officers, and seems like theyve had multiple issue with this residence so concerns about multiple 911 hang ups isnt a stretch

[Chris 2,161]

I’d like to point out that as the suspect is being handcuffed, you can hear comm center in the background putting out an “officer safety” alert with a description that matches the person being detained. That would explain  an aggressive takedown of the suspect; he was believed to be a threat to the safety of officers for some reason or another. 

[Chris 2,161]

8 hours ago, KarenK said:

I don't know if you can file for wrongful termination if you resign

Karen, I “misspoke” in a previous post. He took the termination, a wise move as MsKreed points out.

[Chris 2,161]

I saw this posted on a local oriented Facebook group:

If anyone can elaborate on who the "elements" are in the department or elsewhere, I am all ears.