Questions After Announcement That Alvernaz No Longer Police Chief

[KarenK 383]

On 2/8/2023 at 10:00 AM, Elmira Telegram said:

Follow up: According to a release sent out by the city of Elmira, interim Chief Thorne will be officially sworn in as Chief on Friday, Feb. 10 at 2pm

During his tenure, Thorne has worked as a Patrol Officer, Sergeant, Lieutenant, Captain and Deputy Chief of Police. His supervisory roles have included the Detective Bureau, Drug Enforcement Unit and Patrol. In addition, Thorne was the Elmira SWAT Team Commander.

Thorne and his family reside in Erin. 

He lives in Erin?  Never heard of him.  lol

[Chris 2,162]

According to WETM news:

Quote

 

...33 days after our initial request, WETM received this response from the City Clerk:

“In response to your FOIL request dated January 13th, 2023, requesting the disciplinary records of former Chief Anthony Alvernaz, the City does not possess any disciplinary records relating to former Chief Alvernaz during his time as Chief of Police. Therefore, your request is denied. You have the right to appeal this decision in writing to Hon. Daniel J. Mandell, Mayor of the City of Elmira, at 317 East Church Street, Elmira, New York 14901."

 

The news station went on to say they have filed a FOIL request for Alvernaz's personnel records as well as copies of emails sent between the city manager and city council regarding this matter. 

Should be interesting, if those emails weren't somehow "lost".

[Hal 341]

5 hours ago, Chris said:

You have the right to appeal this decision in writing to Hon. Daniel J. Mandell,

Seems the “ Honorable Mayor “ is deflecting the issue , now is that being honorable?! Because of the request was for any “ disciplinary “ paperwork and there was no actual discipline according to the Not so Honorable Mayor the FOIA request was denied … Methinks something stinks at City Hall ! 

[Chris 2,162]

A FOIL request by WENY news still doesn’t tell a whole lot.
 

According to audio in their report City Manager Michael Collins was provided a thumb drive containing Alvernaz’s body cam footage. Collins tells Alvernaz his conduct was unprofessional and labels his later conduct as insubordination. He’s given the choice to resign or be terminated. He chose to be terminated.

I chuckled when Collins tells him he’ll be escorted to surrender his gun and Alvernaz informs him that he’ll take care of it, and something to the effect of he knows how things are done in his department. 

[MsKreed 1,179]

So, someone on the Southside with juice and connections didn’t like the outcome of their interaction with Alvernaz.....and ran to Collins to step in on their behalf.

No way to tell whether they were the subject of a call or a complainant and Alvernaz did not think they had enough for some charge they wanted him to file etc?

I wonder if WENY will pursue a FOIL for the bodycam footage for the date in question.

[Chris 2,162]

12 hours ago, MsKreed said:

I wonder if WENY will pursue a FOIL for the bodycam footage for the date in question.

I'm hoping someone does, I don't have time. 

The city seems to be doing all they can to release as little information as possible. If the reason for his termination was so egregious, why not just release it all as requested? 

[Chris 2,162]

From the Star Gazette:

Quote

 

On Dec. 9, Elmira police responded to the 400 block of Riverside Avenue to investigate repeated 911 hang-up calls.

Officers reported a male yelling obscenities at them, demanding they leave the residence, and that during the investigation an 18-year-old man fled the residence on foot without shoes. He was subsequently taken into custody and transported to an area hospital for treatment of a foot injury.

Alvernaz confirmed Friday the Riverside Avenue event was the incident in question, but declined to comment further.

 

The blotter for 12/9/22 shows several calls to Riverside Ave but no house numbers are given:

[Chris 2,162]

A letter from Mayor Mandell to WETM news director in regards to requests for information:

[MsKreed 1,179]

Kudos to 18 News  Reporter Nick Dubina

I have to say I'm very pleased with his professional and in-depth coverage of this issue.  It’s not something we see much in local journalism anymore!

Nick doesn't sound like he's going to let this go....

Quote

“Dubina: What can you tell us about what happened on December 9th 2022, which is quoted here as the incident that led to unprofessionalism and insubordination on the part of former chief Alvernaz?

Collins: I’m unable to comment in regards to the incident on 12/9.

Dubina: So for the public to know what happened, is that another avenue of freedom of information requests, correct?

Collins: Yes.

 

Quote

Dubina: And as far as the body cam footage in question, that is also an avenue regarding a Freedom of Information request, that’s not something you will be releasing or commenting on what it shows?

Collins: Correct. I will not be commenting on that.

 

There was also this exchange, where Collins seems to contradict himself when Nick brings up a valid point about conflict of interest....

Quote

Collins: He is unable to conduct an investigation on himself so we have to go next in line, which was at that time our Deputy Chief.

Dubina: Is there no conflict of interest for the Deputy Chief to be investigating a matter that will lead to his ascension to Chief?

Collins: No. No. You know the Deputy Chief is responsible for internal investigations. Whether it’s the Chief or whether it’s a Captain or a Sergeant or a Lieutenant or a Patrol Officer....that is one of the job duties of the Deputy Chief.

 

They didn’t “go next in line” if it’s always supposed to be the Deputy Chief’s job anyway.

Edited February 25, 2023 by MsKreed

[Adam 373]

SVP, Manager of Trust and Investments Steuben Trust company

former Attny for Zeller Law Firm

9th grade Math Teacher

Nurse/spouse

Town of Hhds Code Inspector

hairdresser

retail worker

Dellski LLC ( address is same as Central Hots)

others either dont have much an online presence or properties are rentals....not too many with the juice to get a Chief in hot water

[MsKreed 1,179]

27 minutes ago, Adam said:

others either dont have much an online presence or properties are rentals

https://chemungcountyny.gov/ArchiveCenter/ViewFile/Item/297

Property Tax Rolls show 17 houses in the 400 Block....10 are single family residences that are owner occupied. The rest are listed as duplexes/apartments with owners listed at different addresses than the property, those would be hard to identify the residents.

Edited February 25, 2023 by MsKreed

[Chris 2,162]

10 hours ago, MsKreed said:

Kudos to 18 News  Reporter Nick Dubina

I have to say I'm very pleased with his professional and in-depth coverage of this issue.  It’s not something we see much in local journalism anymore!

Nick doesn't sound like he's going to let this go....

Yeah I’m pretty impressed with his tenacity on this one. I can’t help but think that like many of us, he smells something fishy. 

[KarenK 383]

On 2/23/2023 at 8:48 PM, MsKreed said:

So, someone on the Southside with juice and connections didn’t like the outcome of their interaction with Alvernaz.....and ran to Collins to step in on their behalf.

No way to tell whether they were the subject of a call or a complainant and Alvernaz did not think they had enough for some charge they wanted him to file etc?

I wonder if WENY will pursue a FOIL for the bodycam footage for the date in question.

The Star Gazette article from their FOIL request says the bodycam footage was given to Collins by an "unnamed" police dept employee:

"According to those documents, an unnamed police department employee gave Collins a digital file on Jan. 4 that contained bodycam footage from an incident on Dec. 9.

 

On Jan. 9, Collins summoned Alvernaz to his office and issued an ultimatum.

"I've completed my investigation and I have determined that your conduct regarding the incident on 12/9/22, together with your behavior this past week, constitutes unprofessionalism and insubordination," Collins told Alvernaz."

Elmira releases documents, audio recording tied to Alvernaz firing (stargazette.com)

[MsKreed 1,179]

 

27 minutes ago, KarenK said:

The Star Gazette article from their FOIL request says the bodycam footage was given to Collins by an "unnamed" police dept employee:

 

The WETM piece says that also, and Dubina questioned Collins in this interview, but he did not say who the employee is.

As cagey (and squirming slightly in his seat) as Collins has been, I wish Dubina had specifically asked Collins whether the thumb was some unanticipated delivery.....or if it was something he specifically had requested from the employee. 

Because honestly, am I the only one who feels like it was PDQ for the investigation to be underway immediately, unless it was something Collins was already expecting to pursue?

 

Edited February 25, 2023 by MsKreed

[KarenK 383]

30 minutes ago, MsKreed said:

 

 

The WETM piece says that also, and Dubina questioned Collins in this interview, but he did not say who the employee is.

As cagey (and squirming slightly in his seat) as Collins has been, I wish Dubina had specifically asked Collins whether the thumb was some unanticipated delivery.....or if it was something he specifically had requested from the employee. 

Because honestly, am I the only one who feels like it was PDQ for the investigation to be underway immediately, unless it was something Collins was already expecting to pursue?

 

The entire thing was PDQ as far as I can tell.  Like a plan was in place from the get-go.  

How often does a PD employee rat out another PD employee?  It's incredibly rare.

[Chris 2,162]

What I’m curious about is, why was the chief responding to what, at least so far, sounds like an average call in the city? What made this complaint something that would pull him from his other duties?

And why is the city not being more forthcoming, almost adversarial, in the information they are releasing in response to the FOIL requests? There’s a high level of public suspicion about this already, and they continue to make themselves look guilty of a cover up.

I still think this was a pissing contest between Collins and Alvernaz, and the chief got the shaft.

[MsKreed 1,179]

53 minutes ago, KarenK said:

The entire thing was PDQ as far as I can tell.  Like a plan was in place from the get-go.  

How often does a PD employee rat out another PD employee?  It's incredibly rare.

Right..... 

Random PD Employee: Hey look...here’s bodycam that I decided to dig up from a month ago where I think my boss acted unprofessionally.

City Manager: Oh my Stars!! I will immediately instruct his potential successor to investigate whether to terminate him.

21 minutes ago, Chris said:

What I’m curious about is, why was the chief responding to what, at least so far, sounds like an average call in the city? What made this complaint something that would pull him from his other duties?

 That’s a good question.  Does the Chief typically cover patrol duty?

It’s not explicitly clear that the Chief responded. The SG article said that “Elmira police responded”.....I wonder if there may have been some (allegedly ‘unprofessional’) order that the Chief gave the responding officer over the radio that the bodycam captured?

 

There is certainly much more to be revealed on this issue.  And from the City needing to do "further research" to find documentation after the denied FOIL was appealed, to Collins waffling on whose job it is to conduct employee investigations......the City seems to have made an effort to keep that information from from the public.

[MsKreed 1,179]

Just as a side note for comparison/contrast.......After being acquitted in a criminal trial, the Officer identified by the Attorney General as being involved in a call that left Gary Strobridge dead kept his job.

[Chris 2,162]

16 minutes ago, MsKreed said:

It’s not explicitly clear that the Chief responded.

I went back and re-read the article. It has been edited, but still I could have read it wrong and assumed incorrectly that Chief Alvernaz responded to the scene of the call.

Alvernaz’s statement about refusing to compromise his beliefs leaves me extremely suspicious about what he was asked or told to do in relation to this call.

 

[Chris 2,162]

Doing some more digging, I found this article this article I must have missed.

So Grasso heard a rumor, voted to table the resolution to get more information. He was told that the rumor he heard wasn’t true. Then on 1/31 Grasso and the city council vote to approve Thorne’s appointment,  Grasso telling the media he now knew why Alvernaz was fired.

However on 1/31:

“City Manager Mike Collins told 18 News that Grasso’s claim that he knew why Alvernaz was replaced was incorrect and that Grasso had never received the official reason.”

W the actual F?!?

So if Grasso, in fact, was not told the reason for Alvernaz’s termination, why the sudden 180? Why tell the media otherwise? And what was he told that made him change his mind?

 

[MsKreed 1,179]

I read that to mean that Collins assured him the rumored reason was false, but didn't necessarily disclose full details about the official reason to Grasso.

So perhaps blown enough smoke to believe there was a valid reason?

 

[Chris 2,162]

3 minutes ago, MsKreed said:

So perhaps blown enough smoke to believe there was a valid reason?

I don’t know. One guy says this, the other says that. Someone’s not being truthful.

Speaking of truthful, here’s something I’ve been thinking about since the audio of the meeting was released: Collins offers Alvernaz two options, resign or you’ll be terminated. Alvernaz chooses termination.  And only then, after that decision and he’s about to be fired, does he ask about his eligibility for retirement.

He chooses to be fired without asking that first.

To me, that’s a man who knows what’s happening is wrong and not gonna do anything that remotely smells like guilt. Then, after that, asks what the fallout is.

Thats integrity.

Prove me wrong.

 

[Hal 341]

Nope … your absolutely spot on with that point. The “ retirement “ seemed an afterthought just before termination which was a wise choice , termination that is . Resignation is the death cut for any future action on the good Chiefs part which Im sure will be part of his plan going forward ( hoping on my part ) . 
A principled man standing on the courage of his convictions is never guilty ! Hal S , circa 2023 … 

[Chris 2,162]

1 hour ago, Hal said:

A principled man standing on the courage of his convictions is never guilty !

That should go on a coffee cup. Just sayin'.

 

[Hal 341]

17 minutes ago, Chris said:

That should go on a coffee cup. Just sayin'.

 

Feel free to quote …