Russia-Ukraine War Thread

[TTL News 308]

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How Real Are Putin's Nuclear Threats In Ukraine?

Putin has said his nuclear threat isn’t a bluff. His top associate, Dmitry Medvedev, said Tuesday that Russia has the right to use nuclear weapons in Ukraine if Kyiv threatens Russian statehood.

Medvedev declared NATO would stand back if Moscow launched a nuclear strike on Ukraine. “American and European demagogues aren’t going to die in a nuclear apocalypse, and so they will swallow the use of any weapons in the current conflict,” he said.

Michael McFaul, former U.S. ambassador to Moscow, tweeted that by dangling the nuclear threat, “Putin is not bluffing, he is deterring.”

“He is trying to prevent the West from providing more sophisticated weapons to Ukraine,” McFaul said.

 

Read more here.

Do you think Putin would use nuclear weapons if pushed to do so?

[Chris 2,162]

"How's the war going, comrade?"

"Well..."

 

[MsKreed 1,182]

U.S. resumes 'on-site' inspections to keep track of weapons in Ukraine 

Full Story : HERE

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WASHINGTON, Oct 31 (Reuters) - The United States has restarted on-site inspections in Ukraine to help keep track of the billions of dollars of weapons being provided to Kyiv, a senior U.S. official said on Monday.

Moving large amounts of weaponry into the largest conflict in Europe since World War Two carries with it risks that some could fall into the wrong hands.

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Smaller and Highly portable missiles such as Stinger surface-to-air missiles -- which are a type of MANPAD -- can help win wars, but in the past they have also been lost, sold, or wound up in the arsenals of extremist groups.

Last week, the State Department laid out a series of steps it would take in the coming years to counter the diversion of weapons in eastern Europe.

 

 

 

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The United States cannot visit some places, like those close to the frontline, and is providing training to Ukrainian forces so they can provide better data, the official added.

This part brings up so many questions....regardless of what specific locations they are inside Ukraine

Are military from other NATO countries wandering around Ukraine? Are any of them (US or other NATO) in uniform? If so, does that make them some sort of target for Russia? Are they armed? It seems like not, since firing in the direction of any Russian would constitute aggression from a NATO member.  

[Chris 2,162]

We're pumping arms into this war, as is Iran, according to recent reports. How much longer til WW3 you think?

[TTL News 308]

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UNITED NATIONS (AP) — The U.N. Security Council scheduled a vote Wednesday on a resolution that would establish a commission to investigate unfounded Russian claims that Ukraine and the United States are carrying out “military biologcal” activities that violate the convention prohibiting the use of biological weapons.

Russia circulated a 310-page document to council members last week alleging that this biological activity is taking place in Ukraine with support from the U.S. Defense Department. The document included an official complaint to the Security Council, allowed under Article VI of the 1972 biological weapons convention, and a draft resolution that would authorize the Security Council to set up a commission comprising the 15 council members to investigate Russia’s claims.

 

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[MsKreed 1,182]

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WARSAW, Nov 15 (Reuters) - The United States and Western allies said they were investigating but could not confirm a report on Tuesday that a blast in NATO member Poland resulted from stray Russian missiles, while Russia's defence ministry denied it.

Two people were killed in an explosion in Przewodow, a village in eastern Poland about 6 kilometers (3-1/2 miles) from the border with Ukraine, firefighters said. Media reports said the strike hit a grain-drying facility.

Members of the North Atlantic Treaty Organization (NATO) are committed to collective defence, so a Russian strike on Poland could risk widening the conflict between Russia and Ukraine, which began with Moscow's invasion in February.

 

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[Chris 2,162]

“Grandpa, how did World War 3 begin?”

”Well you see…”

[Hal 341]

Probably a very unpopular opinion but here it is anyway … 

ENOUGH ! We have an invasion of our own on the Southern border , and don’t forget all that equipment and small arms left in the Afghanistan debacle, we are further depleting our current supply of munitions with every shipment to the Ukraine ! Now NATO is considering invoking Article 5 . That is , American LED NATO forces on the ground and make no mistake NATO talks a good story … from behind while our Military Men and Women fight and die FOR WHAT ? It’s going to come down to this … WW3 or this generations VietNam ! Another thing to consider is this , our standing Military count is severely depleted and losing more Personnel everyday and what I ask you is the remedy for a depleted Military folks ? It’s called a Draft !! 
Told ya you wouldn’t like it but it’s just history repeating itself one way or the other and it all starts by supplying weapons every time Zylinski (sp) snaps his fingers ! 
No … it is time to back away from this situation , we stand to lose more than it’s worth . Yep , I said it … more than it’s worth ! Disagree you have every right but just consider the cost and not in dollars ! 

Edited November 16, 2022 by Hal

[Chris 2,162]

I don’t entirely disagree.

Id have to look it up ( and honestly don’t feel like it right now ) but how much money have we as a nation dumped into this vs other NATO or countries whose backdoor is a lot closer to this?

[Hal 341]

11 minutes ago, Chris said:

I don’t entirely disagree.

Id have to look it up ( and honestly don’t feel like it right now ) but how much money have we as a nation dumped into this vs other NATO or countries whose backdoor is a lot closer to this?

I don’t particularly like having to look at the situation in this light either but this is how protracted wars , conflicts , call them what you like start every freaking time . And make no mistake I have seen with my own eyes , up close and personal , how NATO operates … and the monetary cost of this is at the bottom of my personal feelings here ! 

Edited November 16, 2022 by Hal

[Chris 2,162]

Reuters is saying it wasn’t a Russian mistake:

(Reuters) - Initial findings suggest that the missile that hit Poland was fired by Ukrainian forces at an incoming Russian missile, Associated Press reported on Wednesday, citing U.S. officials.

[MsKreed 1,182]

31 minutes ago, Chris said:

Reuters is saying it wasn’t a Russian mistake:

(Reuters) - Initial findings suggest that the missile that hit Poland was fired by Ukrainian forces at an incoming Russian missile, Associated Press reported on Wednesday, citing U.S. officials.

I'm glad this was determined quickly.  And will be a lesson to continue being cautious and avoiding knee-jerk reactions and jumping to conclusions. 

I'm also even more convinced that we should not keep letting Ukraine's knee-jerk reactions and demands for support to manipulate and "guilt" us into endangering our own economic security, way of life and the lives of our military:

 

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In a tweet issued hours after the incident, Ukraine's President Volodymyr Zelenskiy blamed it on "Russian missile terror". There was no immediate Ukrainian response on Wednesday to the reports that Washington now suspected it was in fact a stray Ukrainian missile.

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In a statement, Western leaders at the Bali summit condemned Russia's "barbaric missile attacks" on Ukraine's cities and civilian infrastructure and offered their full support to neighbouring Poland.

Among those attending were President Biden, UK Prime Minister Rishi Sunak, French President Emmanuel Macron and EU Commission President Ursula von der Leyen.

Ukraine's Foreign Minister Dmytro Kuleba said earlier that any claim that Ukraine was responsible for Polish deaths was a Russian "conspiracy theory" and that anyone amplifying the message was spreading "Russian propaganda".

 

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[TTL News 308]

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KYIV, Ukraine (AP) — Russian forces launched at least 60 missiles across Ukraine on Friday, officials said, reporting explosions in at least four cities, including Kyiv. At least two people were killed by a strike on a residential building in central Ukraine, where a hunt was on for survivors. 

Electricity and water services were interrupted in the capital and Ukraine’s second-largest city, Kharkiv. Thousands of people sought shelter in subway stations deep underground during the bombardment.

The Kyiv city administration said Ukraine’s capital had withstood “one of the biggest rocket attacks” launched by Russian forces since they invaded Ukraine nearly 10 months ago. The administration said Ukrainian air defense forces shot down 37 of “about 40” that entered the city’s airspace. One person was injured, it said.

 

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[Chris 2,162]

With all the stuff we're sending to Ukraine, is it that we're not sending them missiles capable of going deep into Russia? Or is one of the conditions of arming them they don't?

Seems to me playing defense so much would get old after a while. 

[Ann 264]

With that Russian arms dealer being traded for the basketball player I think things might get more difficult for the Ukraine..

[Adam 373]

10 hours ago, Chris said:

With all the stuff we're sending to Ukraine, is it that we're not sending them missiles capable of going deep into Russia? Or is one of the conditions of arming them they don't?

Seems to me playing defense so much would get old after a while. 

from what ive read; the US has to be careful as to not send anything that could be used/accused of being used as an offensive weapon( as far as missile/flight capabilities). i do feel the amount of money the American taxpayer is paying out has gotten obscene, and i too would like to know how much other, closer countries are paying in.

that said i feel like, at this point russia has proven itself to be the aggressor, there has yet to be any real justification for its actions, and the specific targeting of Civilian infrastructure( aside from the rape/torture component) makes the case that playing geo-political footsie has been futile. bring in the tanks and fighter jets from wherever, hell Iran is supplying the drones that kill civilians, give ukraine the arms it needs to drive russian forces out, and UN/NATO must seize russian assets to pay for the rebuilding of Ukraine....no two ways about it.

 

[Hal 341]

12 hours ago, Adam said:

to drive russian forces out, and UN/NATO must seize russian assets to pay for the rebuilding of Ukraine....no two ways about it.

This is the only part where I disagree . NATO and UN are obsolete and quite frankly worthless as teets on a boar hog in this World gone nutso ! Any funds of any kind yes , use them for rebuilding etc but as in the past these two entities will not follow through on any promises they make . People of the Ukraine are resilient as they have had to be down through history and given the funds , etc they will rebuild quickly . As with our own FEMA organization here the UN and NATO  would be more of a paperwork nightmare  and hinderance than anything remotely helpful . 

[Chris 2,162]

If we hadn't just spent the last 20 friggin years on a war that accomplished, well, I don't know what, I think there could be more long term support for U.S. aid to Ukraine. But when eggs are almost $5.00 a dozen, it's pretty hard for people to get on board sending billions of dollars in aid there or anywhere. 

[TTL News 308]

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WASHINGTON (AP) — Congressional leaders unveiled a government-wide $1.7 trillion spending package early Tuesday that includes another large round of aid to Ukraine, a nearly 10% boost in defense spending and roughly $40 billion to assist communities across the country recovering from drought, hurricanes and other natural disasters.

The bill, which runs for 4,155 pages, includes about $772.5 billion for non-defense discretionary programs and $858 billion in defense funding and would last through the end of the fiscal year in September.

Lawmakers worked to stuff in as many priorities as they could into the sprawling package, likely the last major bill of the current Congress. They are racing to complete passage before a midnight Friday deadline or face the prospect of a partial government shutdown going into the Christmas holiday.

Lawmakers leading the negotiations released the details of the bill shortly before 2 a.m. Tuesday.

 

Read more here.

[Ann 264]

2 hours ago, Elmira Telegram said:

Read more here.

4,155 pages….I wonder what else is hidden in those pages that has nothing to do with budget.

[KarenK 383]

Why do we keep giving money to Ukraine?

[Hal 341]

YMMV but why , other than humanitarian aid , are we funding another war when we have our own invasion at the Southern border ? We are being drawn in on both fronts for which we will pay and not just in future tax hikes but in other costs which will be far more dear and dire ! 
Comes a time when the Federal Government needs to “tuck in “ as we plebeians have to . By that I mean close that damn border ! This Administration is allowing , promoting and now funding a full blown invasion has anyone been paying attention to the amount of younger males coming across compared to family’s, I have !  
And again , tuck in … stop funding and backing another protracted conflict that will shortly  have our young people in a foreign land fighting and dying and for What ?! No E-freaking nuff , Nada , No more damnit all , look around you we can’t bear much more as it is from food to fuels We are already paying in so many ways for the incompetence of those that are SUPPOSED to represent us and LEAD us ? No freaking thank you to that as we are being LEAD down a steep path to our destruction as a Country ! 

Edited December 20, 2022 by Hal

[MsKreed 1,182]

Listening to Biden, Zelinsky and various politicians and analysts from both sides, it's extremely disturbing to keep hearing everyone beating the mantra of "as long as it takes". 

[Chris 2,162]

33 minutes ago, MsKreed said:

Listening to Biden, Zelinsky and various politicians and analysts from both sides, it's extremely disturbing to keep hearing everyone beating the mantra of "as long as it takes". 

Sure, Putin doesn't care how long it takes either, and has no problem waiting us out while we fund ourselves into financial crisis. 

I'm all for helping out, but this is getting ridiculous. 

[Hal 341]

Do we call this a proxy war , future protracted action or protracted proxy war ? In a fantasy World wouldn’t it be great to see conflicts like this settled by the two leaders on a battlefield, alone just them and as Rip on Yellowstone says “ trade em till one stays down “ ! 
Putin is a bully and Zelinsky is a crook and putting Biden smack dab in the middle of those two … nothing good can come out of this !