Russia-Ukraine War Thread

[MsKreed 1,182]

21 hours ago, Chris said:

Anyone else besides me get the feeling the media LOVES to use the phrase, "The Butcher of Syria" every chance they can?

I feel like there's a lot of media push to overemphasize potential Russian brutality.....making some in the public (and even a few Congress members) more supportive of measures to "stop Putin at any cost". 

 

[Chris 2,162]

On 4/13/2022 at 7:05 AM, MsKreed said:

I feel like there's a lot of media push to overemphasize potential Russian brutality.....making some in the public (and even a few Congress members) more supportive of measures to "stop Putin at any cost". 

 

Yeah... <sigh>.

Seeing the civilian bodies in the streets, and the mass graves, I can't help but wonder: At what point does the rest of the world say, "Enough is enough" and take military action? I mean, we've gone to war for far less than this it seems. 

[MsKreed 1,182]

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One of the most popular rallying cries of the Ukrainian resistance emerged early in the war, when soldiers stationed on a Black Sea military outpost called Snake Island responded to Russian troops' calls to surrender with a few choice words: "Russian warship, go f*** yourself!"

The incident has been memorialized in a special postage stamp, which proud Ukrainians are now lining up en masse to buy, bring home and, in some cases, resell at a markup.

 

Read More Here

[TTL News 308]

More suspected mass graves being investigated. 

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The battle for Mariupol has been seen as key to the eastern assault. But the institute said in an assessment published late Thursday that Russian forces in the city were likely heavily damaged and thus Moscow would struggle to redeploy them quickly to the larger campaign in the east.

Mariupol has seen some of the worst suffering of the war, and the satellite images released Thursday hinted at even more.

In the images, long rows of dirt mounds stretch away from an existing cemetery in Manhush, outside Mariupol. Local officials accused Russia of burying up to 9,000 Ukrainian civilians in mass graves in an effort to conceal the slaughter taking place in the port city, which has been under siege since the early days of the war.

“The bodies of the dead were being brought by the truckload and actually simply being dumped in mounds,” Piotr Andryushchenko, an aide to Mariupol’s mayor, said on Telegram. 

 

Source

[Ann 264]

No matter how many mass graves they find, the question is, who will go after Putin, the Military Commanders or whoever did this?  I won’t hold my breath that there will be any accountability for these atrocities.

[Adam 373]

so along with grabbing as much of the southern regions as possible, i heard today Putin is turning eye towards russian-leaning prts of Moldova.....Maybe Trump was right, UN is worthless, this seems a replay of Hitlers warm up and Chamberlain's appeasement(ya know, to avoid World War)

[Chris 2,162]

There’s no doubt there is appeasement at play here. On another site I asked what is keeping the world from stepping in militarily and the answer, from someone who works at the federal level, was “a huge f—king stockpile of nukes.”

My guess is the world will watch, and continue to impose sanctions, until a middle lands in Poland. “Accidentally” or otherwise.

[Ann 264]

13 hours ago, Chris said:

There’s no doubt there is appeasement at play here. On another site I asked what is keeping the world from stepping in militarily and the answer, from someone who works at the federal level, was “a huge f—king stockpile of nukes.”

My guess is the world will watch, and continue to impose sanctions, until a middle lands in Poland. “Accidentally” or otherwise.

If we’re going to destroy ourselves I would rather it be for standing up to a tyrant rather than holding back because of fear of nuclear war.  Is it a case of “the needs of the many outweigh the needs of the few”?  Are the lives of a few million Ukrainians and the total destruction of a country to be the price of avoiding an all out war?   If it comes to that so be it but  make sure Putin knows Russia will be destroyed with the rest of us.  Perhaps it’s what we deserve.

[Chris 2,162]

All I can do is ask questions. I don't feel right saying we should go to war when it's someone else's kid being sent. 

[Ann 264]

47 minutes ago, Chris said:

All I can do is ask questions. I don't feel right saying we should go to war when it's someone else's kid being sent. 

I am not advocating war as no one really wins.   I have sons and grandsons that I worry about.

 I am discouraged and disheartened that we (humans) have allowed ourselves to be put in the position we are in today.  We created the nuclear monster as a deterrent and now have no understanding of how to control that monster.  We are being held hostage by fear of that monster and Putin, along with others, know this.  At what point will the world’s so called leaders say enough is enough.  Don’t threaten us with “consequences”  that you and your country will share if you unleash that monster.

God help us all as I truly believe He is the only one who can.  

[Chris 2,162]

It's probably no coincidence that this article from 2018 showed up in my news feed this morning. I seem to recall the conversation round the table the following day involving the words, "nightmare" among others. 

[MsKreed 1,182]

39 minutes ago, Chris said:

All I can do is ask questions. I don't feel right saying we should go to war when it's someone else's kid being sent. 

I agree. 

As horrific as it is, I don't think I'd ever get to a point where I feel justified that “we” should intentionally sacrificing human lives. 

As it stands, Ukrainians (and Russian conscripts) are being killed, by the thousands, due to Putin’s actions. Any military aggression by NATO (including the US) will result in more lives lost, due to “our” actions: 

Civilians in Poland and other neighboring states.

Ukrainian refugees who have escaped to those countries.

NATO forces who we send in.

And potentially nuclear actions that stretch further.

 

Maybe that is appeasement....allowing atrocities to happen in order to protect more lives.

How is that more egregious than all the other places on the globe where we (“civilized” society) allow atrocities to happen simply to protect (or even benefit from) economic interests?

 

I can’t say why we haven’t chosen military action to against governments that oppress, enslave and execute dissenters and minorities....or save Uyghurs from the atrocities the CCP is inflicting on them. I’m sure a number of factors are in play.

1)      Ukraine has Western news media and their own social media continuously “showing” us the atrocities, so the devastation has become ubiquitous. If Xi allowed us to see the suffering he’s inflicting, would we see cries of overwhelming public support to stop him?

2)      For some reason, the “civilized world” has decided that the idea of sovereignty makes some lives more valuable. Are atrocities acceptable as long as a despot confine them to their own citizens?

3)      The West finds economic benefits in allowing atrocities to continue. How much more would iPhones and rare earth components cost Americans if we took action to save Chinese citizens from slave labor?

If it's inhumane for the West to refrain from military action for Ukraine that risks exponential loss of life.....then ignoring the other abominations to keep other despots appeased for our own pocketbooks is more inhumane.

[TTL News 308]

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Russia pounded targets all over Ukraine on Thursday, hitting a residential high-rise and another building in Kyiv just as life seemed to be getting a little closer to normal. U.S.-funded broadcaster Radio Free Europe/Radio Liberty said one of its journalists was killed.

In an apparent reference to the attack in Kyiv, Russia’s military said it had destroyed “production buildings” at the Artem defense factory.

The bombardment came barely an hour after Zelenskyy held a news conference with U.N. Secretary-General António Guterres, who toured some of the destruction in and around Kyiv and condemned attacks on civilians.

“This says a lot about Russia’s true attitude toward global institutions, about attempts of the Russian leadership to humiliate the U.N. and everything the organization represents,” Zelenskyy said late Thursday in his nightly video address to the nation. “Therefore, it requires a correspondingly powerful response.”

Kyiv Mayor Vitali Klitschko said the attack was Russian President Vladimir Putin’s way of giving “his middle finger” to Guterres.

The strikes were the boldest Russian attack on the capital since Moscow’s forces retreated weeks ago following their failure to take the city.

 

Source

[Adam 373]

On 4/23/2022 at 10:16 AM, MsKreed said:

2)      For some reason, the “civilized world” has decided that the idea of sovereignty makes some lives more valuable. Are atrocities acceptable as long as a despot confine them to their own citizens?

i think THAT is the key; Neighbors all suspect the guy across the street is beating his wife/kids, but it happens out of sight so no real proof to act on.

same guy starts smacking them around at the community picnic AND threatens to go get his shotgun for anyone trying to offer her an ice-pack....how long is the beating allowed until the neighbors put a stop to it? he cant get the weapon if his hands are broke or hes beat to a grease spot....

overly simplified i know but, how many lives were lost from '38 to 41-42 that might have been spared

 

[Ann 264]

I’m wondering why the U.S. Congress wants to send 40 billion dollars to Ukraine with basically no strings while the European Union is to send 500 million dollars in aid.  To justify the amount,  House Majority Leader, Rep. Steny Hoyer states “we’re at war”.  When did we enter a war?

I agree with Rand Paul, NO.

[Adam 373]

1 hour ago, Ann said:

I’m wondering why the U.S. Congress wants to send 40 billion dollars to Ukraine with basically no strings while the European Union is to send 500 million dollars in aid.  To justify the amount,  House Majority Leader, Rep. Steny Hoyer states “we’re at war”.  When did we enter a war?

I agree with Rand Paul, NO.

i want to know, whats the end-game? our 40 billion to EU 500 million is insulting( i still say something more than "harsh" words for russia is needed)...

[Hal 341]

10 hours ago, Adam said:

i want to know, whats the end-game? our 40 billion to EU 500 million is insulting( i still say something more than "harsh" words for russia is needed)...

Consider this … could this be “hush money “ so that certain things on a certain laptop are kept in the shadows to where it was relegated after coming to light a bit ago . 🤔 Of course i stated in the past NATO ( which as we know include the EU ) ask how many Veterans have ever seen NATO forces actually leading the charge ? 

[TTL News 308]

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KYIV, Ukraine (AP) — Russia took aim at Western military supplies for Ukraine with airstrikes in Kyiv on Sunday that it said destroyed tanks donated from abroad, as President Vladimir Putin warned that any Western deliveries of long-range rocket systems to Ukraine would prompt Moscow to hit “objects that we haven’t yet struck.”

The cryptic threat of a military escalation from the Russian leader didn’t specify what the new targets might be, but it comes days after the United States announced plans to deliver $700 million of security assistance for Ukraine that includes four precision-guided, medium-range rocket systems, helicopters, Javelin anti-tank weapon systems, radars, tactical vehicles, spare parts and more.

 

Source 

[TTL News 308]

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KREMENCHUK, Ukraine (AP) — The mall was nothing extraordinary, but in the middle of a war it was an escape for those in this Ukrainian city who had decided not to flee. Then it exploded in a Russian airstrike.

In moments on Monday afternoon, a summer hangout became a hellish inferno. Life and death depended on a shopper’s decision whether to heed yet another air raid siren and take shelter. Among those who stayed, at least 18 are dead, more than 20 are missing and scores are wounded.

The crowded mall in Kremenchuk, which housed the largest toy store in town, is now the latest shorthand for allegations of war crimes against Russia. As with earlier attacks on a theater, a train station and a hospital elsewhere in Ukraine, authorities in Moscow said the mall was not the target.

One day after the airstrike, the scene still smelled of charred debris. Grit hung in the air, irritating the skin and throats. Visitors laid red carnations, a spot of color in the still-smoking ruins.

Images on social media showed the burned body of a woman, white sneakers still intact, who appeared to have been caught in the blast as she tried to run. In another video, around the time of impact, a man could be heard calling for his mother.

 

Source

[TTL News 308]

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When Russian President Vladimir Putin invaded Ukraine on Feb. 24 in an unprovoked act of aggression, many expected a quick victory.

Six months later, the largest military conflict in Europe since World War II has turned into a grinding war of attrition. The Russian offensive has largely bogged down as Ukrainian forces increasingly target key facilities far behind the front lines, including in Russia-occupied Crimea.

A look at where things stand:

A BOTCHED BLITZ

When Putin declared the start of the “special military operation,” he urged Ukraine’s military to turn against the government in Kyiv, reflecting the Kremlin’s belief that the population would broadly welcome the invaders. Some of the Russian troops coming in from Moscow’s ally of Belarus, just 200 kilometers (about 125 miles) north of the capital, reportedly brought their parade uniforms with them in preparation for a quick triumph.

Those hopes were quickly shattered by fierce Ukrainian resistance, backed by Western-supplied weapons systems to the government of President Volodymyr Zelenskyy.

Airborne troops sent to seize airfields around Kyiv suffered heavy losses and armored convoys stretching along the main highway leading to the capital were pummeled by Ukrainian artillery and scouts.

 

Read the rest here. 

[TTL News 308]

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KYIV, Ukraine (AP) — Authorities began distributing iodine tablets to residents near Ukraine’s Zaporizhzhia nuclear power plant Friday in case of a radiation leak, amid mounting fears that the fighting around the complex could trigger a catastrophe. 

The move came a day after the plant was temporarily knocked offline because of what officials said was fire damage to a transmission line. The incident heightened dread of a nuclear disaster in a country still haunted by the 1986 explosion at Chernobyl.

Continued shelling was reported in the area overnight, and satellite images from Planet Labs showed fires burning around the complex — Europe’s biggest nuclear plant — over the last several days.

 

Source

[TTL News 308]

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KYIV, Ukraine (AP) — Russian President Vladimir Putin ordered a partial mobilization of reservists Wednesday, taking a risky and deeply unpopular step that follows humiliating setbacks for his troops nearly seven months after invading Ukraine.

The first such call-up in Russia since World War II is sure to further fuel tensions with the Western backers of Ukraine, who derided it as an act of weakness and desperation. The move also sent some Russians scrambling to buy plane tickets out of the country and reportedly sparked some demonstrations.

The Kremlin has struggled to replenish its troops in Ukraine, reaching out for volunteers. There even have been reports of widespread recruitment in prisons.

In his seven-minute nationally televised address, Putin also warned the West he isn’t bluffing over using everything at his disposal to protect Russia — an apparent reference to his nuclear arsenal. He has previously told the West not to back Russia against the wall and has rebuked NATO countries for supplying weapons to Ukraine.

 

See the rest here.

[TTL News 308]

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TALLINN, Estonia (AP) — Long lines of cars on roads snaking to Russia’s border crossings with Georgia, Kazakhstan and Mongolia, and similar queues at airports.

Angry demonstrations — not just in Moscow and St. Petersburg — but in the remote far north province of Yakutia and in the southern region of Dagestan, with women chasing a police officer and shouting, “No to war!”

A gunman who opened fire in an enlistment office in a Siberian city and gravely wounded the military commandant, saying, “We will all go home now.”

Five days after President Vladimir Putin announced a partial mobilization to call up hundreds of thousands of reservists to fight in Ukraine, the move has triggered outraged protests, a fearful exodus and acts of violence across the vast country.

“Panic. All the people I know are in panic,” said David, a Russian who gave only his first name out of fear of reprisals, in an interview with The Associated Press at a border crossing with Georgia. “We are running from the regime that kills people.”

 

Source

[TTL News 308]

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WASHINGTON (AP) — More than $12 billion in Ukraine-related aid will be included as part of stopgap spending bill that would fund the federal government into mid-December, a person familiar with the legislation said Monday.

Source 

[Chris 2,162]

43 minutes ago, TwinTiersLiving said:

More than $12 billion in Ukraine-related aid

How many billion are we on the hook for now?

46 minutes ago, TwinTiersLiving said:

“Panic. All the people I know are in panic,” said David, a Russian who gave only his first name out of fear of reprisals

Sure, now that it effects them directly, they begin to care.