Arnot Mall Chat

[KarenK 383]

1 minute ago, Chris said:

I don’t know if every lease is the same, but the lease where I worked? We paid for everything. Even to have an exterior door replaced.

I asked the boss WTF the lease actually paid for, and he said something along the lines of, “You’re standing on it.”

HVAC, plumbing, the tenant paid for it. 

IDK.  My guess is they are all negotiated on a case-by-case basis but Dave did say it was a major complaint they had being maintenance issues.  I suppose where the issue was originating might play into it.   

No matter, the mall apparently can't get out of its own way even with this management and leasing company that's supposed to be famous for reinventing mall space.

[Chris 2,162]

1 hour ago, KarenK said:

I do think people are still visiting the anchor stores.  The two that are left anyway.

Yeah and even those two have changed. Penney’s line for men’s clothing seems to be more lesser known, seemingly cheaper brands instead of the ones they carried for years. Burlington downsized the store and went with different types of clothing. Certainly not the styles and brands I was used to buying there for years.

But even in the off chance I go to Penney’s like I did a couple weeks ago for a new belt, there’s absolutely nothing to draw me out into the mall anymore. 

[Zapp Brannigan 137]

19 hours ago, Elizabeth Whitehouse said:

Turn the excessively large parking lots into an urban farm, or community garden. Convert most of the  shops into living spaces, some with second storeys. (British spelling). Turn one of the big stores into a convention center.

I find it hilarious she pointed out the fact that she was using British spelling 

[MsKreed 1,182]

37 minutes ago, Zapp Brannigan said:

I find it hilarious she pointed out the fact that she was using British spelling 

Do you suppose it was to preemptively “defend” against igner’t yankees who'd think it’s misspelled could be inclined to criticise?

Spoiler

Criticise....See what I did there? Right cheeky of me!

 

[Elizabeth Whitehouse 18]

4 hours ago, Zapp Brannigan said:

I find it hilarious she pointed out the fact that she was using British spelling 

So glad to keep you amused.

[Zapp Brannigan 137]

5 hours ago, MsKreed said:

Do you suppose it was to preemptively “defend” against igner’t yankees who'd think it’s misspelled could be inclined to criticise?

  Reveal hidden contents

Criticise....See what I did there? Right cheeky of me!

 

Exactly!!  Look at me peasants I use British words and sip my tea with pinky out.

[LocalSportsGuy 43]

I mean I don't know if you guys noticed but Comic-Con brought in a lot of business for the Food Courts this weekend. They were jammed packed on Saturday and even busy on Sunday. Big events in the event center could bring in extra business. The mall needs to fully reinvent themselves. Maybe look at what Binghamton is doing with their mall. 

[KarenK 383]

17 minutes ago, LocalSportsGuy said:

I mean I don't know if you guys noticed but Comic-Con brought in a lot of business for the Food Courts this weekend. They were jammed packed on Saturday and even busy on Sunday. Big events in the event center could bring in extra business. The mall needs to fully reinvent themselves. Maybe look at what Binghamton is doing with their mall. 

O.M.G I can't believe I missed Comic Con.   

[Chris 2,162]

41 minutes ago, LocalSportsGuy said:

I mean I don't know if you guys noticed but Comic-Con brought in a lot of business for the Food Courts this weekend.

Oh yeah definitely, and while I didnt get up there, I got the impression they were spread throughout the mall?

Definitely the kind of thinking that place needs, though management should be doing some of that thinking for themselves as well.

24 minutes ago, KarenK said:

O.M.G I can't believe I missed Comic Con.   

I’m more shocked that I didn’t go. But I spent a LOT of money on toys this year already, and with Christmas coming I’m trying to be more responsible. I haven’t watched my weekly Facebook auctions in, well, weeks! 

[MsKreed 1,182]

1 hour ago, LocalSportsGuy said:

I mean I don't know if you guys noticed but Comic-Con brought in a lot of business for the Food Courts this weekend. They were jammed packed on Saturday and even busy on Sunday.

Dang, didn’t hear/see anything advertised about that.  I'm glad they had a good turnout.

 

1 hour ago, LocalSportsGuy said:

Big events in the event center could bring in extra business. The mall needs to fully reinvent themselves.

Absolutely. Not just in the "event center".....but all through the Mall to encourage window shopping (which leads to actual shopping).

And they need to get away from the mindset of trying to generate profits directly from the events.

If they return to the concept that the events can be a wash (or even carry some cost to the Mall management), then the traffic will result in their tenants being profitable enough to warrant the premium rents.

That is exactly what drew the crowds that made the individual businesses (and The Mall) thrive in the past as seen in THIS Album. 

 

If they don’t make some changes, it will continue to bleed tenants and something other than a Mall (and hopefully not just another vacant behemoth) will need to takes its place.

Edited November 15, 2023 by MsKreed

[LocalSportsGuy 43]

Maybe turn the Sears and now soon to be furniture store into senior apartments and have the mall cater to them. Not only do you give them access to Planet Fitness but have a few more stores catered to them. They can do their walking around the mall. Guthrie and Arnot are right across the way for doctors appointments. There are stores outside the mall like Walmart and Target not too far. Heck even try to get Regal to give seniors discount on tickets. Just throwing some ideas out there. 

Edited November 15, 2023 by LocalSportsGuy

[KarenK 383]

21 minutes ago, LocalSportsGuy said:

Maybe turn the Sears and now soon to be furniture store into senior apartments and have the mall cater to them. Not only do you give them access to Planet Fitness but have a few more stores catered to them. They can do their walking around the mall. Guthrie and Arnot are right across the way for doctors appointments. There are stores outside the mall like Walmart and Target not too far. Heck even try to get Regal to give seniors discount on tickets. Just throwing some ideas out there. 

Wasn't Sear the one location that was actually owned?  I think Sears owned it and last I knew they were renting space in there for storage - boats, RVs and such in winter.  

 

[LocalSportsGuy 43]

8 minutes ago, KarenK said:

Wasn't Sear the one location that was actually owned?  I think Sears owned it and last I knew they were renting space in there for storage - boats, RVs and such in winter.  

 

No your thinking of the old Bon Ton location. But I still think the senior living complex would help. At the other end is pickleball courts as well. 

[KarenK 383]

7 hours ago, LocalSportsGuy said:

No your thinking of the old Bon Ton location. But I still think the senior living complex would help. At the other end is pickleball courts as well. 

No, definitely Sears.  Bon Ton was where Izards was.  Then they moved up to center court area and then closed.  Then Macys came in there.  The Macy's section is used regularly for events.  Sears was being used as a storage rental place..  

There are around 80 places operating there.  There are 5 new places that just opened in the mall and 2 coming soon.  There is Pickleball on one end and Planet Fitness on the other.  Personally I thought it would make sense to move all the open stores to one end or the other to make it more centralized and then figure out how to use the rest of it.  I think if people didn't have to walk a mile between storefronts it would make more sense.  Basically use the part where the original mall was before they built on past center court.

Edited November 15, 2023 by KarenK

[Chris 2,162]

We hear all the time about a housing shortage. Well, a mixed use facility isn't out of the question for a mall, and is being done in Williamsport:

Quote

 

Muncy, Pa. — The new owners and developers of the former Lycoming Mall have released updated plans for the redevelopment project on the site.

The 135-acre property is set to become a contemporary, mixed-use commercial community, according to Famvest, who have dubbed the project "The District at Lycoming Valley."

“The inspiration for the new name came from us wanting to find the right words to attract new businesses and patrons to a destination of exciting change and newfound prosperity," stated Jon Jahanshahi, President of Famvest.

The new project intends to revitalize the space with a "modern and vibrant design" and create a multi-purpose live, work, and shop destination, according to a release from Famvest.

 

Source

[MsKreed 1,182]

The former Lycoming Mall?

Yikes.  That shut down fast once the anchor stores started pulling out. 

Knowing that makes the final decline the Arnot Mall seem more imminent than I might have expected. 

[Chris 2,162]

9 minutes ago, MsKreed said:

The former Lycoming Mall?

Yikes.  That shut down fast once the anchor stores started pulling out. 

I'll tell ya what's crazy to me... At one time at my previous job they were thinking about opening a location there, that's how good it seemed to be doing. At the time at least. May have been 2012, 2013? I don't remember. I just remember mention of me having to go there once in a while and I was all for it due to its proximity to Lewisburg LOL

But yeah, we're, ohhh, JC Penney's away from a complete shutdown of our mall. Hopefully someone is looking ahead to the future. 

[KarenK 383]

3 hours ago, Chris said:

We hear all the time about a housing shortage. Well, a mixed use facility isn't out of the question for a mall, and is being done in Williamsport:

Source

Looks like the exact same type of press release that came from "developers" for the Arnot Mall some years ago. That went nowhere.

[MsKreed 1,182]

I remember the “hotel concept” that the IDA was ready to support, but don’t recall one with housing.

It does seem like there’s an endless swarm of “developers”....always eager to push whatever [insert current up-and-coming “vision” that will transform communities] idea onto Chambers of Commerce and local funding streams.  

 

The imaginative new ideas are great, but it’s prudent to consider how “new” they are. Before Arnot Mall was built, indoor malls had been on the rise across the country for a decade, with thousands showing proven success.

Reading the Lycoming story, I don’t see them citing examples where the type of conversion they’re proposing has been built, let alone any that have thrived.

[KarenK 383]

55 minutes ago, MsKreed said:

I remember the “hotel concept” that the IDA was ready to support, but don’t recall one with housing.

It does seem like there’s an endless swarm of “developers”....always eager to push whatever [insert current up-and-coming “vision” that will transform communities] idea onto Chambers of Commerce and local funding streams.  

 

The imaginative new ideas are great, but it’s prudent to consider how “new” they are. Before Arnot Mall was built, indoor malls had been on the rise across the country for a decade, with thousands showing proven success.

Reading the Lycoming story, I don’t see them citing examples where the type of conversion they’re proposing has been built, let alone any that have thrived.

I guess someone has to be first.

[Chris 2,162]

1 hour ago, MsKreed said:

I remember the “hotel concept” that the IDA was ready to support, but don’t recall one with housing.

I'd have to do some digging, but I think that plan called for an expansion up another story or two with Holiday Inn being the company. And when it was learned that they couldn't build on more floors because of the airport being so close by. ( I seem to recall that conversation when I worked there, but it's been years. )

And then of course COVID came along and decimated what was left there already.

[Chris 2,162]

1 hour ago, MsKreed said:

Reading the Lycoming story, I don’t see them citing examples where the type of conversion they’re proposing has been built, let alone any that have thrived.

I want to say someone did this in Europe? But I don't recall for sure. 

But as Karen said, yeah, someone has to be first. Imagine taking that chance and seeing it flourish. That could be a whole new trend in senior living ( which is where I think the European thing came into play ). Live right there and walk down a climate controlled "street" to the grocery store, book shop, coffee shop, gym, etc? Hell yeah, sign me up!

[MsKreed 1,182]

I could absolutely visualize an indoor community like that.  A few coffee shops and restaurants, Wegman’s and a CVS or Walgreens that residents could walk to year-round. For years, seniors (and other “mall walkers”) have been taking advantage of the climate controlled space.....the idea of living right there and having businesses that fit the demographic could be a perfect environment. 

But when I look at the “financial conditions” noted in earlier posts, it seems that whatever rent that Arnot Realty is charging now is too high to keep current business tenants, but also total rent revenue isn't enough to cover adequate maintenance.  So, between the residential rent and from the businesses that would complete the “indoor community”......the Mall (landlord) would need to pull in more than their current revenue.

And not all of the space could be revenue generating. Because in addition to commercial businesses like restaurants, hair salons, grocery, pharmacy, etc.....a truly “self-contained community” should have some “free” (included in the rent) amenities and activities like a community rec center, etc.

It does look like some US malls have undertaken this type of conversion in the past few years ( HERE). So Lycoming isn’t unique for the US. My concerns are affordability and long-term viability from a profitability standpoint. Others, modelled after the Dutch Model you spoke of (mentioned HERE) are more institutional senior care (i.e. non-profit facilities). 

That’s why I’d like to see examples that have been successful....and what that looked like. Can they, keep rent reasonably priced for residents and businesses....while still providing reliable maintenance and offering some entertainment/amenities free of charge? Or will taxpayer subsidies be needed to keep the place affordable?

Edited November 21, 2023 by MsKreed

[Elizabeth Whitehouse 18]

On 11/11/2023 at 10:20 PM, Elizabeth Whitehouse said:

"Flattening" the mall for any reason is a terrible idea. Repurpose it, yes, but don't tear it down.

I couldn't agree more. Flattening anything is a bad idea - environmentally and economically. It could be repurposed in so many ways.

[Chris 2,162]

I see a lot of talk on social media about Journeys closing.