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Thank you @Lawana Morse I truly hope that the IDA provide the transparency and accountability that we all expect and deserve. Including a past accounting of their use of taxpayer money to give the Legislature and the public a full context. Okay, we can all agree that the misguided decision to “invest” $1.25 million into the (then) “City of Elmira’s” hockey arena was made by county Legislators who have all since ‘left the building’. Even in 1999, that decision was not without controversy (I believe a 10-5 vote). However, a number of our current legislators were in office by the time the last "private" owner (current Aviation Director, Tom Freeman) occupied the Arena. All of the Legislators who have currently held four or more terms of office voted for a 25yr commitment (2014 – 2039) to provide $103,000/yr of Room Tax Revenue to the IDA for the Arena....as well as in 2016 when the IDA made the decision to “assume temporary ownership” of the Arena and the Legislature voted to also funnel $1 million in Casella funds to the IDA’s acquisition of the Arena. (That 25yr Room Tax commitment makes one wonder just how “temporary” the arrangement was intended to be. We’re 10 years [over $1 million] into it with another 15 years [1.5 million] to go.) And in the last 2 years... the $875k in ARP funds. I can’t be certain that other county tax money hasn’t been spent (it’s quite likely I’m unaware of some). But those I’ve noted amount to over $2.9 million paid to the IDA in last 7 years.....and another $1.5 million committed through 2039. Room tax (2014-2024) $103,000x 10yrs: $1.03 million Casella funds (June 2016): $1 million ARP funds: $875,000 Still promised, Room tax (2025-2039) $103,000x 15yrs: $1.545 million And then there is whatever Donner may or may not have deposited into that wonderful “capital” account that the latest (Nov 2021) IDA lease required. That agreement was made under the current IDA leadership – no passing the buck to “past actors” who mismanaged the situation. That provision “guaranteed” a minimum of $125k per year from Arena revenues (with promises that it would likely be at least twice that amount). How much had Donner put into that ‘kitty’ in the 20 months before the lease was terminated? And where is that money? If that amount is anything less that a quarter million dollars....can we have some explanation from Margeson/Roman why they abjectly failed to hold Donner to that agreement (and some justification on why/how we should trust them now?

Here is a publications regarding the background of the IDA. It is from May of 2006. Industrial Development Agencies in New York State: Background, Issues and Recommendations (ny.gov) The IDA is not a county entity. The IDA organization is a state creation. They have oversite from the OSC. Each IDA has a governing board and a director that is in charge of the day to day operations. "Industrial Development Agencies (IDAs) are public benefit corporations originally authorized by the Industrial Development Agency Act of 1969 and governed by the provisions of Article 18-A of the General Municipal Law. Since that time, 177 IDAs have been legislatively authorized and 115 remain active today." (At time of publication of above document) The county gives organizational funding to the IDA each year just as funding is given to CCE, STC, Soil and Water, etc. (You can see this information on the budget overview portion of the 2024 county budget.) IDAs receive funding from the state. They also can issue bonds, hold a lease, and "typically maintain their operations by charging various fees to the businesses that participate in their projects". I am unsure if the IDAs are able to go after grant funding themselves also but they do work with other organizations that can obtain project grants. I fully admit that I am still learning and gathering information on the IDA organizations across the state and how they have actually helped the communities. Anyone that has resources and articles that give the facts of the IDAs across the state, please feel free to email me links.

Honestly good. If you can't do it right, shut it down. It's not fair to local venues or businesses. It's sad that Lowmaster and Dunce didn't do this right from the start but I hope this showcases not just the need for a small venue like this, but that it could work and be popular in the area. Hopefully someone comes around, opens a real location, and does it the right way.

Remember the horror we all felt when Columbine happened? Now something like this barely gets a reaction out of many of us. Just another day in America. This nation has been rotting from the inside out for decades. Focusing on and making laws based on what feels “good” vs what feels right. This is the result. But the cries will sound, blaming the inanimate object because that’s the easy thing to do. Far easier than looking in the mirror and realizing the real problem is us.

He didn't call for any (corporeal) bloodbath, he's simply predicting an (economic) bloodbath if the current administration continues its path. And he's not necessarily wrong about that. But it's not his supporters who are spreading the inflammatory out-of-context phrase....the problem is those who are against him that are hoping to foment fear and counting on the idea that voters who "don’t understand context" will believe he is calling for a "bloodbath" if he doesn't win.

I hope for his sake he doesn’t throw out his own ballots.

It’s official: After a two hour delay due to issues on board, we’ve landed a lunar module for the first time in 50 years. Took them some extra time to find the module, as it landed intuitively, in other words it decided where the safest landing zone would be on its own. The confirmed a faint signal and are now working to refine the signal. Apparently we’ll get images from the moon at some point. Too cool.

Considering that Granicus has not provided adequate support for their Streaming platform, it does not give me a lot of confidence in their PEAK agenda software that the Exec purchased. I'm further amazed that a few people commented on Strange's post that the County should consider hiring outside IT services to get the Streaming issues resolved. For the $26k/year subscription that we are paying them, Granicus should be able to work with our County IT Department. And if we need "outside experts" because the County IT Department isn't proficient enough to handle it, the Legislature should be considering whether the 15 FTE employees with a payroll of over $800k/year plus benefits are a good investment.

Yes. It's frustrating watching from the outside and frustrating seeing it more in depth from the inside - especially when you're damned if you do - damned if you don't. I saw on another forum someone playing the party blame game "This wouldn't be happening if partyX was in control". All I can say to that is a big ole' "B-S". This isn't a party issue. It's a personality issue. An issue of forgetting - or never even caring - why you are elected in the first place. There is blame on both sides and nothing is going to change unless the desire for complete control is abandoned.

I would love to hear some feedback from more in the community regarding the resolution we passed through committee last night that supports an end-to-end audit of the NYS voter rolls. I have heard a few voices for and a few against and all are very passionate in their stance. I voted it through the committee and am most likely going to vote it through on the floor for a few reasons: I see this resolution as a show of support to those in the community who feel like something is off with our voter rolls in the state. I honestly don't think that resolutions from the counties and towns do much to sway the state floor. During Covid, one of the biggest frustrations for me was feeling like concerns were simply swept under the rug. I remember conversations with school officials that I left feeling like I wasn't taken seriously and that I was given a pat on the head and told to run along rather than having my concerns actually addressed. Those interactions made me think there was some stuff going on that shouldn't be. If there's nothing to hide, will it really hurt to put the concerns and fears to bed? I don't see how asking for confirmation that all is well feeds into the "misinformation." I appreciate all the work our county BOE does (there are things they go above and beyond to do that are not required to help ensure our county rolls are accurate), but as I saw while out campaigning, there is cleanup needed. I like to think I am an honest person with integrity and that I don't have a scammer's imagination, BUT I can think of at least 4 different ways how I could commit election fraud. I can't even begin to imagine all the ways someone with bad intent and lots of resources could do so.

Everyone here knows me as a legislator but my bread and butter job is a tax accountant working with small businesses in the area. Every once in a while there are items of interest that I'd like to get out to the public beyond just my clients because I don't see information being circulated through traditional news outlets. Once such item that has been a hot topic in the accounting world for a year or so now is a reporting obligation that just took effect 1/1/2024. FinCen is requiring any business that has done a filing with the secretary of state (so LLCs, Corps, and a few other types such as trusts and non-profits) to report the Beneficial Ownership Information. This is being requested to try to deal with shell companies and other foreign illegal entities. In reality, the only thing different for this reporting over the registration with the SOS is uploading a form of identification. If you have a business and it falls under an LLC or Corp, you have until 12/31/2024 to complete the filing. (It took me 10 minutes and 5 of those were spent trying to find my husband's driver's license in his hodgepodge wallet.) If you are looking to start a business in 2024, you will have 90 days from filing to complete the BOI requirments. If you start a business after 1/1/2025, you will have 30 days. Anytime there is a change of ownership you have to update the reporting. You can find information on the FinCen website under BOI reporting. (A google search will get you there).

“We reached out to all 15 legislators for a comment on how they voted. In an email, Chairman Mark Margeson, who voted in favor of the raises, said “I currently have no comment.” Source How absolutely insulting to the taxpayers ( you know, those of us who aren’t able to give ourselves raises ) to tell us we need to cough up more money, then take more for yourself. This scenario seems familiar to me… “You do not imagine, I hope, that we pigs are doing this in a spirit of selfishness and privilege? Many of us actually dislike milk and apples….Day and night we are watching over your welfare. It is for your sake that we drink the milk and eat those apples.” And then to just say, “No comment?” C’mon Mark, you can do better than that. At least explain your rationale for taking money out of our wallets and putting it in your own. Granted, it won’t make it alright, but it’s less a slap in the face than “no comment” and carrying on, business as usual. A huge THANK YOU to Bill, Lawana, and the others who tried to do the right thing for the people they represent. I hope Moss vetoes this pay raise.

A side note related to this, there has been a bill that keeps trying to go round at state level to stop elected officials from holding a place on the IDA boards. Legislator Chalk spoke to me a few meetings ago and told me that he specifically asked to be on the IDA board because he too was concerned with the amount of time the meeting went to executive session and because he has a desire for the transparency to be there. There are a few members of that board that are new as of 2023. I believe they are seeking the greater transarency, accountability, and to make positive changes, but it is slow going. It is not easy to come onto a board and implement changes. It takes some time. The frustration on the public side is the lack of communication. If the new members would just say "hey, this is what changes I'm working towards and this is what is being accomplished" it would go a long way to create some trust from the public ESPECIALLY when the prior leadship of an organization has caused a lot of mistrust.

This was the headline that got my attention: Source He sounds like a scorned lover. I have a solution. How about we stop funding BOTH!

The Church, Adam and whomever the poet is knew of Scotts past. Many witnessed it first hand. And they still went along with it. Terrible actors.

Let me get this straight, they didn't know about any of the zoning and tax issues yet were disgusted about it when they found out but it's the towns fault for finding out about improper zoning and the stations fault for reporting the news??? Even if it's all on Lowmaster, Bunce continued to operate the illegal opperations long after Lowmaster left mid summer. To get mad at the station and the town is laughable beyond belief.

Exactly..... If they want to demand the steadily increasing rents, they'd need to bring back the benefits that they removed over the last several decades that had made that square footage "gold" in the first place. From the time the Arnot Mall was built until somewhere in the mid-late ‘90s, it operated with the basic recipe/formula that made other malls across America thrive (and justifying the higher rent costs to their tenants). Free Events like pageants, art shows, parades, etc drawing consumers into the facility. Non-Competition clauses in their leases that promised tenants that they wouldn’t have to fight over customers for identical goods and services right down the hall.....while providing consumers with a Wide Variety of shops & services. Anchor Stores comprised of large, popular, national retailers with traffic from a consistent customer base. Then we saw some of the “ingredients” in that recipe being skimped on (or completely omitted) in order for the Mall Management to squeeze more profits...... Instead of hosting free events, they began charging vendors to participate (like the Farmer’s Market Chris mentioned). Eventually, they just offered up corridors full time to any fly-by-night junk dealer who wanted a booth. There was also no longer any attempt to protect older tenants from competition. Any new booth or storefront can come along and sell the same stuff as the next guy. And with the rent being too damn high.....a lot of those new tenants don’t invest in any remodeling or refacing of the old business. They just throw tarps up as walls and use temporary banners for signage. Whereas people used to show up for themed free events, no one goes to the Mall for the enjoyment of browsing a dozen cheap booths and trashy stores full of the same Chinese junk they can get at Dollar General. So...less traffic. And less traffic means more of the businesses leave– so raise the rent of course! Because going back to the business model that was successful would just be crazy.

The old Macy's is currently being utilized as an event space. There were several "community gardens" started over the years. I know there was on in Elmira. There was one up here in Erin where I live. Interest in them lasted 2 or 3 years.

A millennia of fiction writing proves that ‘imagination’ is limitless. However, realism and pragmatic solutions are constrained by actual real-world boundaries. And remember that we’re talking about hypothetical uses for a privately owned, commercial property (that once hugely contributed to financial prosperity in the area). Unless one's “imagination” includes a fantasy world where tax revenue is not needed, and hinges on the expectation that the owners should just surrender their asset for “the public good”....those three ideas would need to be at least analogous in that they are profitable and produce more jobs and tax revenue. And in the interest of distinguishing mere ‘imagination’ from realistic scenarios.....each concept should include cited examples of anyone, anyplace actually achieving them for some realistic length of time. There are plenty of criticisms we can throw at the current Mall management for its deteriorating role in the local economy. Wanting it to be even less economically successful seems like the antithesis of a solution. It’s beyond asinine to suggest reducing the Mall’s business revenue when the local economy needs the opposite. We already have a surplus of underutilized publicly owned and completely vacant/derelict private properties that are currently less beneficial to the community than they should be.....even less so than the mall. The Arena, Erie Plaza, Hills Plaza. While it’s still probably an impractical idea to invest millions of dollars into re-inventing those places as public resources like community gardens and municipal centers....at least doing so would not eliminate existing business revenue potential.

For most things in my own life, I absolutely prefer a practical approach of reusing and repurposing. But million+ square foot commercial properties aren’t like old sinks that can be painted a new color and used for some completely different function, like a kitschy planter. It’s one thing to add non-structural walls to a relatively small building and create office space and/or studio apartments, etc. However, the larger the property that was built to accommodate a specific enterprise, the more impractical it is to “revamp” to another use. Yes, third world countries (that do not have the means to start over) are often forced to try things like turning abandoned factories into hospitals. But those “repurposed” facilities are not by choice. They are substandard and far inferior to their practical and functional counterparts that were built to serve as hospitals. Example: Over its 25 years of dormancy......it was painfully clear that the A&P Plant as it stood, would never have been practically suited for anything other than what it was built for. No amount of retrofitting and redecorating could have ever turned it into some other use that would be modern, operational, and profitable.....like a Walmart, a hotel, a medical center, a truck plaza, or an apartment complex, etc. Period. And the Mall, as it stands, will never be practicably suited for any of those uses either.

I will, and I intend to remain active

Just makes you wonder whose buddy is fixing the clock tower so many better ways to spend that 3.5 million. Most people can only read digital clocks these days anyways

Well, a home improvement company certainly would have a bonanza in Elmira 🤣

September 19th 6:30pm at Ag Society office at fairgrounds there will be the annual meeting of Ag Society to bring on new board members to begin planning for 2024 fair. They are looking for 4-7 new members. Show up if interested in being part of bringing the fair back to something to be proud of.

I don’t think the Republican Party is all that behind Trump. It’s the people. What upsets me is that on most of the news channels all you see and hear is about Trump and indictments. To me, this smells of election interference, what Trump is accused of doing, in my opinion. The focus is on Trump and nothing about the Bidens and the possible corruption there. A can of worms has been opened. Was it Lenin or Marx who said “accuse the other side of that which you are guilty”. In my opinion, that’s what is happening now.

Oh I didnt mean from me.

@Elizabeth Whitehouse: While I wouldn’t necessarily think “this kind of comment” should get you expelled from a site, I do wonder what purpose you intended for it to accomplish. Long before Social Media facilitated “instant reaction” to written material, we all managed to be exposed to ideas that may or maynot fit our own beliefs....through radio, TV, magazines, newspapers and books et al. And, since the invention of Guttenburg’s printing press, there has never been (and still is not) any imperitive to challenge the author(s) directly. We are fortunate in some nations (like the US) to have the choice of what media we want to consume (or choose not to). It seems like a tragic waste of ones time to seek out content we disagree with for the sole purpose of offering an antagonistic response. I’m curious how you felt that your reply was beneficial to anyone. It’s doubtful you will gain any understanding of Linda’s perspective by replying as you did. Nor is it likely that your curt and disparaging remark will sway Linda or any of her readers to your perspective.

Not saying NO pay should be given, but lets look at their compensation 15k or more plus health insurance for less than part time hours(actually worked) yet other part time County employees are prohibited from getting insurance. Many of these Legislators have served multiple terms and when topic of term limits comes up they, like clockwork, reply with elections are the opportunity to limit terms, yet they do not/would not trust those same voters with determining whether they deserve raises or not. so they continue to reward themselves....which goes to your second point: there are SOME who are interested in working to improve governance, that being their primary intention, not their primary source of income

"Less 'upper crust' = more public trust," would be a great slogan. Just sayin'

For the record.... Although I believe it’s wrong for Moss to shirk the ACFR reporting, I tend to agree with the other point he made in his letter: If the County taxpayers are stakeholders (“owners”) of any facility or venue that has operating expenditures and revenue, the operations and financials of said facility need full transparency and accountability. This has been the case since.....forever. The Airport, Park Station and the Nursing Facility are county-owned "operations" that draw revenue from utilization. And all of their personnel decisions and expenditures are transparently reviewed and approved by the Legislature. Their revenue/expense books are transparently included in County financial reporting. Example: The Aviation Director's appointment (and his salary) are approved by the Legislature, and if he wants to pay someone to wax the floors at the Airport.....that process is subject to oversight and approval. The same premise should apply to the Arena (as well as the Fairgrounds Community Center, once it comes to fruition). However under CCCR, we don't know who appointed Robert Kramarik Marketing & Sales Director for First Arena. Is the “operating team” made up of volunteers or are they salaried positions? We also don’t know how events like “Cabin Fever” are funded. We know they had “carnival activities” (like inflated attractions and giant games). But no idea if those attractions were donated by a sponsor, or if the Arena put out for bids.....or if the Marketing Director has the authority to hire Bobby K Entertainment if he wants. On a final note: Just as Moss seems determined to clash with the Legislature, there are also a few Legislators who continue to look for reasons to clash with Moss. I think most of the public has had enough of the bickering and tit-for-tat attacks between the local branches. And we do appreciate those Legislators who don't engage in that petty power struggle.

Nope, nope, nope...thats like putting salt on watermelon or syrup on corn-fritters and sausage Well theres nothing worse than expecting one texture, then suddenly experiencing the ear piercing crunch of a finely chopped(poorly hidden) onion Im amost thinking we Should just change the topic to "Adam's Opinions" instead? lol

In addition to the $875 in ARP funds.....every year, the Legislature passes a resolution to pay $103,000/yr of Room Tax Revenue to the IDA for the Arena. This is a continuation of a 2014 resolution that promised the CCIDA more than $2.5 million in tax dollars specifically for the Arena over a 25 year period (2014 – 2039). $100k a year isn't a bad steady income for a shady 'quasi-government' agency that flagrantly violates Open Meeting Law to hide its operations from public view, and then boldly lies to the public when it is on record. He's arrogantly denying the Arena is receiving nearly $3.5 million in tax money ($875k ARP + $2,575,000 Room Tax). This doesn't include past legislative actions that were a few million from 1999 through 2017......just current tax money trough that the CCIDA is feeding at. "Who us?? We din't git no tax money."

It’s crap like this that keep great things for the county like this ( approved nearly two years ago and not a peep since ) from happening. All but two or three in the current county government need to go.

I was wondering the same thing. Perhaps the vagrant population in Ithaca has stripped all the abandoned buildings in Ithaca clean? Or maybe one or more of them are from the area and had a "lead" on a vacant building to burgle? In any event, I doubt it will be reported when their appearance dates come and go.....when they'll either get probation or not show up at all. 🙄

I’m not sure about other states, but in New York State the prison system regularly changes terminology. I suppose it started with “reformatories” and “penitentiaries” becoming “prisons” and then “correctional facilities”. I have no idea when (or why) “wardens” became “superintendents” or who decided that “prison guard” was insulting and needed to called “correctional officers”. And then there is the evolution of “convict” (short for the perfectly clear and accurate “convicted felon”, since they had clearly been convicted of a felony - duh). By the 80s or 90s, that was unacceptable and was changed to “inmate”. Not only did it involve editing every single document, blank form, database and directive that was used in a prison ....um Correctional Facility......staff could face disciplinary action for using the “old” language. The 2000’s saw another change from “inmate” to “offender” (no longer convicted of a felony, they had just committed an offense, I guess?). Many of the “offenders” themselves took exception to the new label....as it seemed too similar to the already common “sex offender” title that had replaced distasteful descriptions like “rapist” and “child molester”. So, in spite of all the thousands of documents, blank forms, databases and directives that were revised to replace “inmate” with “offender”....the word “inmate” was still the preferred term. However, the Verbicide continues..... and the revision process started all over in 2022 when they were renamed “incarcerated individuals” because the term inmate is "dehumanizing". Sorry....having been convicted of felonies, they are still convicts.

That's the only thing I can promise, to listen and to engage as much as I can. Everyone I talk to has something different that they are passionate about and would like to have someone address that topic. It does get overwhemling trying to sort through all the input and figuring out what to put at the front of the line to advocate for. But as long as ya'll are patient and respectful, even when you disagree, I will continue to engage to the best of my ability.

I have seen other patrons of the L make this same comment....and you in particular aren't one to lie about your observation. And yet there are records that many of the neighbors did hear noise often enough to report it to different officials on multiple occasions. Neighbors of the L, on record, publicly giving their names and addresses. Not (as some seem to want us to believe)....the Town fabricating vague anonymous accusations as part of an agenda to drive the L out. Both seem sincere and I have trouble trying to reconcile that. Makes me wonder if the sound carries more in one direction, or if the noise was bad for certain events and not as bad at others? The way some of Bunce and friends piling on WETM deny there were ever any valid complaints, you'd think there was just some orange guy on the Town Board or the news channel saying: "You know,some people say there's a lot noise. The noise is tremendous. Many many people have said to me that it's a noisy place. Very very noisy place"

I mean I don't know if you guys noticed but Comic-Con brought in a lot of business for the Food Courts this weekend. They were jammed packed on Saturday and even busy on Sunday. Big events in the event center could bring in extra business. The mall needs to fully reinvent themselves. Maybe look at what Binghamton is doing with their mall.

The mall is pricing themselves right out of tenants. Mooneys will be far better off in a location they own. Right off the highway too.

I wrote the following to our legislator. I urge others who oppose this to do the same: “I am writing to voice my disapproval of the county giving the CCIDA the proposed $500,000 in ARP funds. Or any funds for that matter. That money could be put to far better use for projects elsewhere in the county. The proposed indoor farmers market and convention center at the county fairgrounds being just one example. First Arena has been a millstone around the taxpayers necks for far too long. And now that Mr. Margeson sits on the IDA and chairs the legislature, we’re supposed to fast track yet more money into that place? I think that’s not only wrong, it’s arguably a conflict of interests. I hope you and others on the legislature will vote against this.“

It's up to the voters now. If a guy who has been in office as long as Joe telling you to vote "no" isn't enough incentive to vote "yes", I don't know what is:

Possibly, to some extent. But I'm more alarmed at the lack of culpability for trained mental health professionals who "evaluate" dangerous nut jobs and then declare them mentally fit to go on about their delusional lives walking amongst us with weapons. Like the Buffalo shooter, this guy had already been identified as a threat. We will likely not ever know if the "professionals" simply let him go without reporting the danger -- or if they additionally prescribed him meds that exacerbated his violent thoughts. If untrained minimum wage bartenders can be held criminally responsible for not recognizing impairment and 'contributing' to DWI fatalities, why aren't those doctors accountable?

Would I say “worst”? Certainly not. I would agree it’s pretty bad though. And not even in comparison to the “Queen City” Golden Years, I’d just look at now vs 20-30 years ago and Elmira has declined. Of course anyone whose income is derived from the city government or who sees it as an investment opportunity would disagree. Even if it were burning down around them when asked.

What drives me nuts ( though I don’t see it as often anymore ) is bartenders having to split tips. I used to tell one of them it went in their pocket, not the bucket. The first time they said they weren’t allowed to. ”BS, put it in your pocket.” After that they laughed, said “The customer is always right!” Then pocketed the money. 😅

Looking real good Chris ! I had to muster the energy to get the last four heads of cabbage out of the raised beds and into the crock for Sauerkraut today . Only got about 15 pounds but that should be plenty . Garden to crock super fresh and I was munching on the part not going into the crock . I put too many cabbage plants on one half of the bed (6) and Brussels Sprouts in the other half (6) , kinda crowded but growing great . I will change planting plans next year . And definitely picking up anther of these new beds !

It’s a jungle out there:

Since we are rehashing old posts. I was very disappointed to see him go. Id happily pay 32.00 for a good fresh steak but I am a quality over quantity person.

I moved the houseplants, which are mostly potted herbs, outdoors since I'm tired of looking at them and I wanted to tidy up the windowsill. I successfully kept all the rosemary alive through winter, but next year I'm only keeping one plant. Or perhaps three in one larger planter. I can't do much else out there right now since it's so soggy, but the weeping cherry I planted for the wife last year is doing nice: The peach trees successfully blossomed and the apple trees are starting to show signs of blossoming any day. With any luck maybe we'll get fruit this year. I am down to one 2ltr bottle of cider in the freezer! I'm gonna stop and spend some money at Banfield Baker this week I believe, to get some soil additives for the raised beds. I also want to see if they have worm castings. I saw an episode of "Growing A Greener World" this weekend and it was pretty interesting. I also wanna see what they have for grapes, as I'm thinking of putting in 2-3 plants for the hell of it.