Heights Theater Listed For Lease

[Chris 2,162]

 

[Chris 2,162]

I’m still pretty pissed about how that all went down. I miss going there.

[KarenK 383]

20 minutes ago, Chris said:

I’m still pretty pissed about how that all went down. I miss going there.

Social media is all over that one.  Not a nice thing to say about the church in the cornfield.

[Zapp Brannigan 137]

37 minutes ago, Chris said:

I’m still pretty pissed about how that all went down. I miss going there.

Probably his plan all along forget the community and line his own pockets. 

[Andy 70]

1 hour ago, KarenK said:

Social media is all over that one.  Not a nice thing to say about the church in the cornfield.

To be a fly on the wall at their little congregation this Sunday...

[Rod 18]

damn my family and I were looking forward to veggie tales and Kirk Cameron movies on constant rotation

I guess nothing gets in the way of family entertainment like prophets  profits

[Chris 2,162]

I’m not gonna copy and paste all the hubbub that led up to this because honestly, I question somewhat the motives of the person that started it all back up. I get a sense of self-aggrandizement, or looking to make a name for one’s self but hey, I could be wrong.

Anyhow, today’s firestorm on social media did prompt Pastor Spencer to address the situation. This in itself is highly unusual. You can see it here: https://www.facebook.com/HisTabernacle/videos/251349457337421/?app=fbl

[Chris 2,162]

I’ve thought a lot about this, and talked it over a lot with the person who, were it not for COVID, would have been able to purchase the theater. And my perspective has changed somewhat.

Im still “Team J.” and wish to God he could have been able to take ownership of the business. He knew the biz inside and out and in addition to keeping a historic theater going did a lot for the community. Sadly, banks weren’t keen to approve loans for businesses that weren’t open due to the pandemic.

I don’t blame the church necessarily, although I’ve no doubt they saw an opportunity for lots of tax free money to be made. I guess they found out that the movie theater business isn’t so easy. The former manager and anyone who knows him knew that.

Honestly, it’s the previous owner who did the prospective buyer and the community dirty. They had a business I’m sure they were already looking to get out and suddenly it was gonna take more time than planned. So instead they dumped it, took the tax write off, and walked away from it.

At face value, that’s a smart business decision perhaps.

Except in doing so, they not only deprived the community of a treasured, family centered entertainment venue. They completely pulled the rug out from under the person who ran it and made them money from it.

So as much as I’m tempted to chalk the fact that the church can’t deliver up to karma, I can’t.

( For the record, I had no intention of supporting it though. )

We can rehash this all we want. The fact of the matter is that the theater we all loved is no more and not coming back. 

On a separate but related note, I don’t believe the church owes answers to anyone as to their reasoning for the price of the lease. No matter how much an internet expert thinks they do. 

[MsKreed 1,182]

47 minutes ago, Chris said:

I’m not gonna copy and paste all the hubbub that led up to this because honestly, I question somewhat the motives of the person that started it all back up. I get a sense of self-aggrandizement, or looking to make a name for one’s self but hey, I could be wrong.

Anyhow, today’s firestorm on social media did prompt Pastor Spencer to address the situation. This in itself is highly unusual. You can see it here: https://www.facebook.com/HisTabernacle/videos/251349457337421/?app=fbl

I watched the video.

I may be lacking some context since I didn't see the "firestorm", but his point about the red flags and hurdles of a church running "for profit" enterprise make me wonder how "renting" fits into the whole 501c formula. 

And his remark about a very low revenue limit if a church does operate a for profit business....... makes me wonder even more about the Journey Church operating The L

[Chris 2,162]

14 minutes ago, MsKreed said:

I may be lacking some context since I didn't see the "firestorm"

Ok maybe that was a bad choice of words. Someone made a long post about the theater being advertised, and it went crazy viral in a short amount of time. This prompted Spencer to respond.

[KarenK 383]

36 minutes ago, Chris said:

Ok maybe that was a bad choice of words. Someone made a long post about the theater being advertised, and it went crazy viral in a short amount of time. This prompted Spencer to respond.

A verrrrrry long post.  I almost got bored reading it but knew it was gonna go viral quickly so I read it.  And then I waited.....

[KarenK 383]

53 minutes ago, MsKreed said:

I watched the video.

I may be lacking some context since I didn't see the "firestorm", but his point about the red flags and hurdles of a church running "for profit" enterprise make me wonder how "renting" fits into the whole 501c formula. 

And his remark about a very low revenue limit if a church does operate a for profit business....... makes me wonder even more about the Journey Church operating The L

A non profit or not for profit (and there is a difference) has to donate the majority of their proceeds.  I believe they can retain 25% for operating costs (that may be higher now though).

[KarenK 383]

1 hour ago, Chris said:

We can rehash this all we want. The fact of the matter is that the theater we all loved is no more and not coming back. 

On a separate but related note, I don’t believe the church owes answers to anyone as to their reasoning for the price of the lease. No matter how much an internet expert thinks they do. 

I agree.  It's was given to them to do what they want with it.  I think they had good intentions that didn't work out.  The people out there "demanding" that they do this or that need to mind their own business.  They have no right to demand anything.  

[Adam 373]

30 minutes ago, KarenK said:

has to donate the majority of their proceeds.  I believe they can retain 25% for operating costs (that may be higher now though).

donate to where though? asking because i really dont know, and the use of religious exemption for profit seems to be an increasing trend(or we are just hearing more about it now). in the case of the L, since it is actually the church( L doesnt seem to be registered business anywhere) does the "overage" just get donated to "church" coffers? if so, thats a pretty convenient way of doing business.

as to His Tab, no they dont owe the building to anyone, it would be great if they do in kind and offer it for sale to a party for the minimum allowed, im wondering as KR did, how is it that daunting to run a church-business if Journey has started 3 and been fairly successful at it in such a short time? i suppose much can be chalked up to mistrust and too many snake-oil enterprises in the area over they years i guess

[KarenK 383]

11 minutes ago, Adam said:

donate to where though? asking because i really dont know, and the use of religious exemption for profit seems to be an increasing trend(or we are just hearing more about it now). in the case of the L, since it is actually the church( L doesnt seem to be registered business anywhere) does the "overage" just get donated to "church" coffers? if so, thats a pretty convenient way of doing business.

as to His Tab, no they dont owe the building to anyone, it would be great if they do in kind and offer it for sale to a party for the minimum allowed, im wondering as KR did, how is it that daunting to run a church-business if Journey has started 3 and been fairly successful at it in such a short time? i suppose much can be chalked up to mistrust and too many snake-oil enterprises in the area over they years i guess

Well the Moose (also a 501c) donates to everything.  FD, PD, Food bank, schools, kids sports. library etc etc.  

Journey isn't doing the work down there as pertains the L because money management is not their strong point.  They have a promotions guy Adam who does all the shows and concerts.  That's what he does and he's good at it.  I believe the majority of the proceeds go to iMatter Foundation.  

Both are operating within the boundaries of their organizations.  The IRS would shut them down in a heartbeat if they were not.

[Chris 2,162]

A follow up from the OP on social media:

 

Quote

 

Alright friends, we're getting closer to the end.

 

Someone I'm friends with requested information about the Heights Theater from Pyramid Brokerage, and they responded saying that His Tabernacle no longer wanted to lease the building, they decided that selling it after November 21st of this year (the date after which it would be legal for them to) was their best option, subject to NYS Attorney General approval.

 

That's great! Whoever decides to buy it won't be paying the church way too much to lease it.

 

However, Pyramid Brokerage in the message also revealed their asking price, which is $275,000.

 

I don't know enough about commercial real estate to say whether or not this is a reasonable price for a building of that size, with the problems they were lamenting it has -- high utility cost, pipe problems, etc.

 

What I do know however is how to look up what the appropriate cost would be. According to the Chemung County tax website, a 2022 assessment puts the total market value for the property at $171,300 https://chemung.sdgnys.com/propdetail.aspx?swis=073403... (click the button that says public access, and if it asks you to do a search, click the link again instead).

 

Just to head off a few arguments before they begin, no I do not know when the 2022 assessment was made. However, even if it was done January 1st of last year, they absolutely did not put that much value into the building between then and now.

 

Now the question is, how was the $275,000 price reached? Their repairs, upkeep, and utilities while owning the building for 2 and a half years couldn't have reached that if they were willing to lease it for $43,222.68 a year. I'm not sure if the 2022 assessment takes into consideration equipment and furniture, but if it doesn't I can't imagine the equipment costs would be that high.

 

We're back at it again, profit vs providing a benefit for the community. They made promises of using an incredible gift to provide for the community, failed to keep those promises, and now instead of trying their best to actually help the community in whatever way they can (selling the building at-cost to wipe their hands clean, ensuring the congregation didn't pay for anything), they chose another price for the building that gets them a large paycheck.

 

In November, the building will finally be able to be sold back to the community. His Tabernacle seems to no longer want to have it or be associated with it, yet still seem dead set on making a profit off of a generous gift. I say that's wrong. That's not being kind to your neighbors, for the love of money is a root of all kinds of evils.

 

[KarenK 383]

I still feel that these people need to mind their own business.  The bottom line is that it was a gift to do with as they pleased.  The whole point was they would make money in some manner (tithings) from the gift.  Any "profit" they make will be minimal because the nonprofit status only allows them to keep so much.

This guy is a shit stirrer.

[MsKreed 1,182]

5 minutes ago, KarenK said:

I still feel that these people need to mind their own business. 

Agreed.  I haven't seen where this is playing out on social media, but the only valid reason someone would have for contacting the broker is if they have a sincere interest as a tenant or buyer.

If that were the case, further queries and negotiation with the broker are far more reasonable (and professional) approaches than complaining on social media. 

[Chris 2,162]

As repugnant as I found the whole thing when it happened, I have to agree.

At this point, I just hope someone who loves the theater and what it stood for gets it. 

[Adam 373]

ultimately it isnt this persons business but imho:

it was gifted to the church, has been vacant and according to Spencer they want the community to enjoy it etc....

well since it was a gift, and the church is tax exempt, the only money they really are out are the cost of repairs. so in the spirit of community-good, sell it to recoup cost of repairs only

i dont think ANY church or religious org should make profit, particularly since they are sales, property/school tax exemot, and many also get discounts on fire and utilities as well.