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Pvt Snowball

Let's Talk About Race In The Twin Tiers

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Upstate NY is a beautiful place alot of open land good fishing and good quality of breathable air, let pull back some layers. Have you ever noticed there are no black communities anymore? Sure there are black people but no communities especially locally. How do we get more black people involved in their community?

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I tweaked the topic title just a bit to make it more fitting for this category. But it is a good conversation, so long as it remains a civil one. 

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13 minutes ago, Pvt Snowball said:

Upstate NY is a beautiful place alot of open land good fishing and good quality of breathable air, let pull back some layers. Have you ever noticed there are no black communities anymore? Sure there are black people but no communities especially locally. How do we get more black people involved in their community?

Could you be a bit more specific as to the type of community you’re looking for , in this case Black communities. ,activities ,residential ?!  
Getting more people of color involved in their respective communities is completely up to those individuals as I see it . 

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Let me preface everything by being 100% honest and frank:

It seems to me that whenever someone says, "Let's have a conversation" about anything pertaining to race, it quickly erodes into a shouting match or Joe Whiteguy is expected to sit down and shut up. That's not a "dialogue", that's a lecture.

Now, I know that statement alone will piss some people off. But like I said, I'm being honest, and I think that's what you're looking for. I think you're here for the conversation. At least I hope. If not, we'll shut this down post haste.

I don't know that this is a question a nearly 50 year old white guy living in the country can answer. I think this is something that leaders and the people within the black community need to figure out. Certainly you have strong black leaders right here in Elmira. I've seen some of the great work they're doing.

Is the message not getting out or is there something on an individual level that keeps it from resonating with them? I honestly don't know. What do YOU think,  Pvt. Snowball?

 

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Posted (edited)
6 hours ago, Hal said:

Could you be a bit more specific as to the type of community you’re looking for , in this case Black communities. ,activities ,residential ?!  
Getting more people of color involved in their respective communities is completely up to those individuals as I see it . 

So it like when you plant a seed in your garden if there no nourishments or care than it will never grow and to be a thriving community it loses interest. So I think recreating these communities and bring it back black owned businesses can really help the community become better and get more active engagement. We as a collective society we should to start bringing back sunshine to the people that are forgotten.

Edited by Pvt Snowball
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So how does the community do that? And I'm taking about the black community specifically... how would YOU engage them, get them on board with the idea?

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In keeping with your gardening analogy. 

A seed once planted and nurtured is thereafter on its own to either grow and thrive. To explain, over the course of 70 odd ( some more odd than others ) years of living in the area I have seen many businesses owned by Blacks, Whites and other people of Color start up only to fail or thrive. Why you say? A myriad of reasons I would answer: demographics not so much I think, lack of interest or support from those respective “communities“ maybe or just not getting the product out to other communities to draw them them in, the young plant lacking sunshine if you will. 

Communities themselves have taken a drastic turn in Chemung County over the years and for the most part not for the better. I will add here that I have more than a little experience with business and community and I can tell you from that experience sometimes even a garden, already planted by another gardener, does not thrive no matter how much nurturing given if the community does not allow the sun to shine on it or show interest. 

So in closing, IMHO I do not look at the problems of the area as being a matter of a persons race. Rather I believe it to be cyclic in that business’s, activities, and communities change over time and again, not for the better .

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54 minutes ago, Pvt Snowball said:

So I think recreating these communities and bring it back black owned businesses can really help the community become better and get more active engagement. We as a collective society you got to start bringing back sunshine to the people that are forgotten.

I agree 100% with this approach.

There are a lot of ‘outward effects’ that are correlated with race.....poverty, education levels, incarceration, etc.

These need to be unraveled by identifying and addressing underlying “confounding variables”, rather than some of the common “fixes” that focus on [race=effects] (more assistance, more edu $$, less enforcement  of laws, etc).

It's a good idea to foster things that promote community involvement...like business ownership, etc as you point out.

As a Libertarian, I don’t think many government interventions have proven successful. Things like Albany prioritizing cannabis licenses for minorities are not the answer.

It also seems like the historic stereotype of “white flight” (people able to rise and prosper who flee to the suburbs, away from the struggling neighborhoods they were born into) isn’t necessarily confined to race/color.  Black people who achieve success, higher education, etc tend to abandon those failing communities as well. 

Perhaps there’s some way to generate outreach to those who’ve elevated their position in life.....that encourages them to bring their "formulas for success" back to those they left behind?

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8 hours ago, Chris said:

So how does the community do that? And I'm taking about the black community specifically... how would YOU engage them, get them on board with the idea?

For starters go into the neighbors you wouldn't normally go in look up the demographics of the people. Getting a feel of what they go through on a daily basis and understanding and listening, because if we are not talking then there can be no dialogue.

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6 minutes ago, Pvt Snowball said:

For starters go into the neighbors you wouldn't normally go in look up the demographics of the people. Getting a feel of what they go through on a daily basis…

Yeah I’m there five days a week, so I have at least a basic understanding of what it’s like there.

I’m asking what YOU specifically think YOU can do.

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9 hours ago, Chris said:

Let me preface everything by being 100% honest and frank:

It seems to me that whenever someone says, "Let's have a conversation" about anything pertaining to race, it quickly erodes into a shouting match or Joe Whiteguy is expected to sit down and shut up. That's not a "dialogue", that's a lecture.

Now, I know that statement alone will piss some people off. But like I said, I'm being honest, and I think that's what you're looking for. I think you're here for the conversation. At least I hope. If not, we'll shut this down post haste.

I don't know that this is a question a nearly 50 year old white guy living in the country can answer. I think this is something that leaders and the people within the black community need to figure out. Certainly you have strong black leaders right here in Elmira. I've seen some of the great work they're doing.

Is the message not getting out or is there something on an individual level that keeps it from resonating with them? I honestly don't know. What do YOU think,  Pvt. Snowball?

 

I'm always eager to have a constructive and productive conversation. However, all conversations require listening and receiving the facts being given to you. Unfortunately, too many people are more concerned with preserving their idea of reality instead of accepting the truth.

I'm curious as to who these 'great Black Leaders' are that you refer to. Because the people we see as leaders and the people you may see as our leaders may not be the same. 

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I won’t drop the names of private citizens here. But suffice it to say I’ve seen many people over the years who I would consider strong leaders - teachers, community figures, etc. who happen to be black, doing what they can to better the lives of people in the community.

I can only give you my perceptions here. I’m not black, so you’re absolutely correct that our perspectives will be different at times.

( Of course it’s possible that like the blind men with the elephant, you and I could, at times, misconstrue perspective with fact. )

Thinking about this a while ago, I tried to think of a section of town that fits what could be considered a “black community” in the sense of there may have once been. You know, a section of town like the Irish, Italian, etc. had. There’s the area in the vicinity of what used to be Slabtown I suppose, but much like those other groups, there’s no specific neighborhood anymore.

So I guess we have to talk about the black community as a city-wide group(?) Unless you have a neighborhood in mind? That may make the conversation easier in that we have an example to start from.

I’m honestly curious, what can you, as a black man in Elmira, do? What problem do you see that you believe you could have a role in improving?

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Posted (edited)

Besides what I'm already doing? Because I volunteer, Im involved with my local government, and I'm involved with a local racial justice group.but I would like to invite you to a conversation sometime in the future 

Edited by Pvt Snowball
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As a side note (I don't want to hijack the topic of specific communities).... I think there’s been a decades-long decline in community connection by Americans in general. 

Sure, there are some neighborhoods (including ethnic communities) that have maintained traditional community involvement as a priority.  But not what it was years ago.

And I’m not talking just about organized community centers, etc. Fewer and fewer people even casually interact with their immediate neighbors anymore. 

Of course, the internet and technology has played some part in isolation from our neighbors. But it’s more than that.  

You don’t often see kids playing kickball or basketball at local parks or playgrounds and making friends organically. Instead parents shuttle their kids away to engage in structured activities (and keep to themselves when they're home). Block parties and neighborhood activities that used to be common events across all demographics, started dying before cell phones finished them off.

It quite believable that this widespread change would have a more noticeable impact on black communities, especially if organized community resources are less available. But it's sad that spontaneous/unstructured community relationships are becoming rare for everyone. 

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46 minutes ago, Pvt Snowball said:

Besides what I'm already doing? Because I volunteer, Im involved with my local government, and I'm involved with a local racial justice group.but I would like to invite you to a conversation sometime in the future 

Excellent. Somehow I had a feeling.

So what areas do you see where the entire community can help our black neighbors?

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2 hours ago, Chris said:

So what areas do you see where the entire community can help our black neighbors?

i know this isnt directed at me but it gets me to thinking: 

first priority would be to identify those that WANT to to be helped. regardless of race, there is a large(seemingly growing) portion of society that are completely comfortable in their way of life and to offer assistance in lifting them is actually seen as insult or even racist. having dealt with the area in many of same ways Chris has over the years, it is an issue not seen only in the Black Community( wont presume to know much more beyond that)

Pvt. does make good points, and i think could offer some great insight but if they, as a minority, is having difficulty positively affecting that particular demographic then how would the majority do so without it seeming like white-savior complex?

or does it become an instance of a rising tide lifts all boats if the City/County removed their heads from backside and actually made moves to bring quality employment and expectations into the area does the increased success of some build momentum for others?

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10 hours ago, Adam said:

i know this isnt directed at me but it gets me to thinking: 

first priority would be to identify those that WANT to to be helped. regardless of race, there is a large(seemingly growing) portion of society that are completely comfortable in their way of life and to offer assistance in lifting them is actually seen as insult or even racist. having dealt with the area in many of same ways Chris has over the years, it is an issue not seen only in the Black Community( wont presume to know much more beyond that)

Pvt. does make good points, and i think could offer some great insight but if they, as a minority, is having difficulty positively affecting that particular demographic then how would the majority do so without it seeming like white-savior complex?

or does it become an instance of a rising tide lifts all boats if the City/County removed their heads from backside and actually made moves to bring quality employment and expectations into the area does the increased success of some build momentum for others?

Trust me when I say it an uphill battle in within our own communities.but these are conversations that needs to be had if we are to break down the barriers. One's shouldn't benefit off another struggles, instead prosper off each other success. In this day in age there should never be a reason we are still talking and getting nowhere unless someone opens a dialogue.

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13 hours ago, Chris said:

Excellent. Somehow I had a feeling.

So what areas do you see where the entire community can help our black neighbors?

For example there are a lot of empty plaza s in town from the north to the south you can add training and work sites for people who want to work, but the opportunity must be there. If there was a black neighborhood it long gone.

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13 hours ago, MsKreed said:

It quite believable that this widespread change would have a more noticeable impact on black communities, especially if organized community resources are less available. But it's sad that spontaneous/unstructured community relationships are becoming rare for everyone. 

Not hijacking the topic at all! This is one insight into one of the questions posed in the original post:

On 5/28/2024 at 8:49 AM, Pvt Snowball said:

Sure there are black people but no communities especially locally.

 

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2 hours ago, Pvt Snowball said:

For example there are a lot of empty plaza s in town from the north to the south you can add training and work sites for people who want to work, but the opportunity must be there.

i thought Legislative Chair Margeson was, at one point, strong advocate for a small business incubator...

shame his, and any other entity's, attention have zeroed in on the Arena. i think a big step in accomplishing some goals is to get people in offices that are actually interested in disrupting the status quo

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On 5/28/2024 at 10:44 AM, Hal said:

In keeping with your gardening analogy. 

A seed once planted and nurtured is thereafter on its own to either grow and thrive. To explain, over the course of 70 odd ( some more odd than others ) years of living in the area I have seen many businesses owned by Blacks, Whites and other people of Color start up only to fail or thrive. Why you say? A myriad of reasons I would answer: demographics not so much I think, lack of interest or support from those respective “communities“ maybe or just not getting the product out to other communities to draw them them in, the young plant lacking sunshine if you will. 

Communities themselves have taken a drastic turn in Chemung County over the years and for the most part not for the better. I will add here that I have more than a little experience with business and community and I can tell you from that experience sometimes even a garden, already planted by another gardener, does not thrive no matter how much nurturing given if the community does not allow the sun to shine on it or show interest. 

So in closing, IMHO I do not look at the problems of the area as being a matter of a persons race. Rather I believe it to be cyclic in that business’s, activities, and communities change over time and again, not for the better .

If certain systems wasn't in place we wouldn't have a lot of the problems we have today.

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2 minutes ago, Pvt Snowball said:

If certain systems wasn't in place we wouldn't have a lot of the problems we have today.

 “ certain systems “ ? Can you / will you explain what systems?!

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On 5/28/2024 at 9:21 AM, Chris said:

Let me preface everything by being 100% honest and frank:

It seems to me that whenever someone says, "Let's have a conversation" about anything pertaining to race, it quickly erodes into a shouting match or Joe Whiteguy is expected to sit down and shut up. That's not a "dialogue", that's a lecture.

Now, I know that statement alone will piss some people off. But like I said, I'm being honest, and I think that's what you're looking for. I think you're here for the conversation. At least I hope. If not, we'll shut this down post haste.

I don't know that this is a question a nearly 50 year old white guy living in the country can answer. I think this is something that leaders and the people within the black community need to figure out. Certainly you have strong black leaders right here in Elmira. I've seen some of the great work they're doing.

Is the message not getting out or is there something on an individual level that keeps it from resonating with them? I honestly don't know. What do YOU think,  Pvt. Snowball?

 

So I think a panel of discussion should be had 

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Isn’t that we’ve been doing here?

This is your topic man, have at it! 🙂

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On 5/31/2024 at 2:55 PM, Hal said:

 “ certain systems “ ? Can you / will you explain what systems?!

Poor quality education system especially in the black community alot of those schools are underfunded, overcrowded.mass mass incarcerations and police brutalities, poor public housing do you think people especially in the black communities like living like that? Probably not and as far as the political system we only make up about 13% of congress talk about equal representation right.

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