Full Interview: Dr. Jordan Peterson Sits Down With Piers Morgan

[Chris 2,235]

 

[Chris 2,235]

I've never paid much attention to Dr. Peterson, and I really can't stand Piers Morgan. But this was sent to me to listen to, based on ongoing conversation I have with a friend, and I'm glad I did. There's a lot more to unpack than they did in this interview, and it could have gone on for hours. 

Our society has a LOT to figure out and find balance when it comes to things such as sexuality, masculinity, gender, etc and so on. And it involves honest and open conversation that, right now, would result in someone being completely crucified for if they said in the open what is said in private. 

 

[Chris 2,235]

In the event of a TL;DR moment, just forward to about the 40 minute mark. 

[MsKreed 1,204]

Without even checking out the 45 minute interview, I can extrapolate on this point you made:

36 minutes ago, Chris said:

Our society has a LOT to figure out and find balance when it comes to things such as sexuality, masculinity, gender, etc and so on. And it involves honest and open conversation that, right now, would result in someone being completely crucified for if they said in the open what is said in private. 

I would add several other topics like race, economics/poverty, culture, etc to the gender related subjects you mention.....

The current trend where many ‘advocates’, public personalities and media “demanding” what they seem to feel is the only acceptable dialogue (in the name of sensitivity, tolerance, diversity, acceptance, inclusivity....or whatever phrase is used) is quashing  the very concept of honest and open conversation that is the only way to foster understanding and growth.

[Chris 2,235]

Unfortunately, "conversation" in nearly all things is now, "You will be told what is correct thinking, now sit there and shut up."

So very in depth and meaningful conversations take place behind closed doors, on long car rides, or in small groups over a cold one or two. And the content of those conversations could be quite eye-opening for those who need their eyes opened the most. 

Male oriented issues are something I've been following for the past few years.  While I won't go too in depth about it here, Reddit had a thing I read one time to the effect of, "Men, what is something you go through that society wouldn't understand or doesn't know about" or something to that effect. The responses were staggering and honestly, heartbreaking in many instances. One of the guys who responded told of the time he saw a cute little kid in the check out line. He simply smiled at the child, which the parent, seeing it, took to mean ( judging by their body language and response I guess ) he was a pervert who wanted to abduct and molest the child. It destroyed him, and made him feel afraid to so much as smile at a child going forward. 

There's a million of these types of stereotypes and double standards no one gives a shit about because, "patriarchy and toxic masculinity, blah blah blah."

( I'll stop now, because my soapbox is dangerously close and I have to walk the dog. )

[MsKreed 1,204]

Even going back to how  “Women’s Empowerment” and equality were being discussed in college courses I took over 20 years ago, I felt there was a concerning trend to dismiss (and even vilify) “maleness”.

As a 30-something non-traditional student, I sometimes felt obligated to offer perspectives that the younger students might not get from professors.  One such topic was the strides that feminism had made (although the prof implied it was still an ongoing struggle) in what she characterized as “limitations” women faced due to societal expectations of (patriarchal) gender roles.

The example that was portrayed: Before the 70-80s and even into the 90s to some extent, it was “expected” that the ultimate life goal for women was to become a homemaker/mother. That females might go to college and get a job...but only as a step to finding a mate. Their studies and any ‘career’ would be left behind once they “landed a man”.  Women, my professor said, didn’t have a “real choice” and would be ostracized or lose acceptance if they tried to “choose” a career over child-rearing.

I was met with a visible jaw-drop when I pointed out that, under the same societal expectations of (patriarchal) gender roles.....men weren’t given a “choice” either. They would most certainly be ostracized and lose acceptance if they tried to “choose” a child-rearing over a bread-winning career. And would still face criticism today of being some worthless, lazy deadbeat if they aspired to staying home while a woman pays the bills.

[Chris 2,235]

21 hours ago, MsKreed said:

And would still face criticism today of being some worthless, lazy deadbeat if they aspired to staying home while a woman pays the bills.

This sentence stood out to me yesterday, but I waited a full day to respond because I wanted to make sure it was relevant. I think it is. 

In the approximately 90 days in 2018 I was unemployed ( for the first time in my adult life ) I was asked by someone what I was doing with my time. Now, I had a plan in motion, but this person is one of those rare people I cannot stand, and I knew she was asking because there'd been gossip. So I gave a non-committal answer to which she responded, "Oh, a man of leisure then?"

I was busy in the moment, as well as didn't feel like conversing with her any more that that, so I said nothing. But it wasn't until later that the audacity and the meaning of what she said struck me, and pissed me off. 

Now mind you I was studying for an entirely new job and skill set, as well as doing the grocery shopping, meal prep, outdoor work, etc. that needed to be done around here as well as finishing my first book. Were the gender roles reversed, I would have been a "stay at home" parent, revered and considered "employed' as much as any one. But since I'm male, none of that mattered. I was a "man of leisure". 

Bitch.

 

[MsKreed 1,204]

Exactly...same insane double standard that I tried to refute 20 years ago.

And I would add to your story another "toxic masculinity" narrative:

8 minutes ago, Chris said:

Were the gender roles reversed, I would have been a "stay at home" parent, revered and considered "employed' as much as any one. But since I'm male, none of that mattered. I was a "man of leisure". 

At the same time that a stay at home mother is revered and respected.....the new wokeness also often holds her up as a victim who is somehow "forced" to rely on her husband for financial security.   Meanwhile the bread-winning mothers are also victims if they support "stay at home" fathers. 

 

[Chris 2,235]

 

12 minutes ago, MsKreed said:

the new wokeness also often holds her up as a victim who is somehow "forced" to rely on her husband for financial security.

Right. God forbid any woman choose to stay home and raise the children. Ya know, like society seems to think men are unable to. It's insanity. 

I was just re-reading a list of the countless examples men have posted in forums and online discussions about it. I can post some here if you'd like, for the sake of conversation. The ideas and attitudes that are accepted when it comes to men is complete B.S. and I will tell you, lurkers and all, this: Men are very aware of it, and very, very tired of it. 

( And of course men's rights is just one of many examples of what Peterson is referring to in the original video. 

[Chris 2,235]

I read this recently and thought it was pretty good. An excerpt:

Quote

 

If you’re a young, marriageable woman these days—or even if you’re the parent or grandparent of one—you’ve probably asked the following question once or twice: “Where are all the good men?”

To be sure, there’s no shortage of males, but there just doesn’t seem to be the “real men” types—those who embrace masculinity and the protector and provider roles that traditionally come with it.

As one female noted on Reddit a few months ago, “Every time I go on a date, I discover the person sitting across from me is a modern, effeminate, and weak man.”

Pointing out that many of today’s men are weak isn’t an attempt to bash them. Indeed, bashing and tearing down the male sex is probably one of the many reasons they’ve become feminized, in addition to the coddling, soft environment in which they’ve been raised.

 

Read the rest here. 

One of the many reasons I got fed up with Boy Scouts was due in part to the constant hovering over a couple of the boys by their mothers. I'm not saying women shouldn't be involved in aspects of the program, I mean, I get it, some families don't have the father around. But some things are best learned with a slight amount of struggle. Doing something wrong a couple times leads to a better understanding of how to do something correctly going forward. But the moms would step in the moment there appeared to be even the slightest hint of apprehension not to assist, which would be perfectly fine I suppose, but to do for them. In turn, nothing was really learned, other than me learning not to say "Let him try it himself a time or two" ever again.