MsKreed

Yes, heritage and historical preservation are important.

But not at the sacrifice of practical utilization and providing services that benefit the public. The historic purpose of the original pool (which, as Rod points out, was replaced in the 1940’s) was a community resource, open to the public for use as an aquatic recreation.

As middle and upper income families (homeowners and gated condo/apartment complexes) increasingly have the means to invest in private pools, while lower income and urban residents have far fewer options. Why would the City waste funds and resources creating what is essentially a shrine to a past (replaced) recreational facility....instead of repurposing the property into a modernized aquatic recreational facility (splash park) that fulfills the historic purpose???

“Hey kids!

We know the summer months are long and hot and your parents can’t afford to transport you to Harris Hill or someplace else outside the city to safely cool off and play in the water.

But we have put a lot of effort into sprucing up the shell of this concrete behemoth. So you can stand around admiring it and be reminded of how your grandparents actually had a public facility where they could enjoy water-play when they were your age!!”

I'm pretty sure the students at Southside High in 2001 were very happy to have an armed School Resource Officer that they could report concerns to.

And he calmly approached and disarmed the would-be killer....instead of "shooting first and asking questions later".

Quote

February 14, 2001
Web posted at: 9:16 p.m. EST (0216 GMT)

ELMIRA, New York (CNN) -- An 18-year-old student was taken into police custody on Wednesday after he walked into his Western New York high school carrying 14 pipe bombs, a shotgun and a handgun, law enforcement officials said.

A fellow student told a security officer at Southside High School about 8 a.m. that the suspect had a gun, Elmira police Capt. Steven Milford told CNN in a phone interview.

The officer approached the student in the school's cafeteria, and the suspect turned over a gun without incident. The officer then found among the suspect's belongings a shotgun and 14 pipe bombs, Milford said. Milford declined to elaborate on where the pipe bombs were found.

Source CNN

1 hour ago, Chris said:

The flooding on I-86 from elmira to Horseheads is insane from what I'm seeing online. I don't think I've ever seen it do that before. 

You're not kidding.

Here are some shots of the area by Lattabrook Park (Coca Cola, Scwanns)

Can't seem to get the embed to work.

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11 hours ago, Chris said:

H.L. Stephens is moving out of their Arnot Mall location to a new store located in The Shops at Chambers.

That should just about kill off an entire wing of the mall, other than they gym. (I think? I haven’t been to the mall in a long time.)

There’s a local group that holds a car show every Friday (4-8pm) outside the vacant Sears and HL Stephens end of the mall.  I attended on recently and went inside the mall to take a look while I was there. It was very disheartening.

There were more people in the parking lot for the informal little car show than all of the shoppers and employees inside the mall combined.  Not only the number of empty stores....but many that were still operating were closed by 5pm on a Friday night.  

It was relayed to me that one of the vendors from the Food Court often operates a sandwich truck for car show attendees....and has expressed that he makes more money on those Fridays than the entire rest of the week inside the mall.

The State mandate for lifeguard supervision that I shared earlier has nothing to do with local police enforcement....whether more foot patrols or fewer officers on the EPD force, or any other policy that a City Official would have control over.

If the City of Elmira were to re-open a public pool without lifeguards (in violation of the requirements outlined in the "Swimming Pool Safety Plan" filed with the State), then the State Department of Health (Bureau of Community Environmental Health and Food Protection), not the local "police" are the officials who oversee and enforce matters of NYS Public Safety regulations. 

1 hour ago, Chris said:

Trained lifeguards do know how to do all that, as the very name of the job implies.

Exactly!

Even if operators designate "accompanied by an adult" rules, the facility has to have lifeguards on duty. 

Aside from good common sense, and mitigating potential liability for personal injury, lifeguards are required by the mandatory "Swimming Pool Safety Plan" filed with the NYS Department of Health. 

See HERE

7 minutes ago, Elizabeth Whitehouse said:

Someone also told me that one of the reasons the pool was built in the first place was that kids were swimming in the river and drowning.

Im not sure about Brand...but I do know that was the case with Thorne Street pool in the Village of Horseheads.  

The goal was to provide a safe supervised place for kids spending summer days running around with neighbor kids, instead of local creeks and ponds. Hence the expectation of having trained lifeguards on duty like every other municipal pool that I have ever known of....

Brand, Thorne Street, West Elmira, Harris Hill, Dennison Park....every town in the Midwest that I ever lived in or visited.  🌞

55 minutes ago, Elizabeth Whitehouse said:

I am absolutely serious. Parents don't want their children to drown. So they need to keep an eye on them. A swimming pool is not daycare, where you drop the kids off for a couple of hours expecting other people to watch them.

Unfortunately, many parents do not provide sufficient supervision for their children.

And when their own inattentiveness results in tragedy....some of those negligent parents file large lawsuits against the entities that own and operate the pool. Even in cases where the parents were there "keeping an eye on their child".

https://www.jacksonville.com/story/news/courts/2021/02/10/jacksonville-parents-sue-daytona-wave-pool-over-drowning-death-son/6703616002/

https://www.wmbfnews.com/2020/06/10/parents-year-old-drowning-victim-sue-myrtle-beach-hotel/

https://www.khou.com/article/news/katy-family-files-lawsuit-after-boy-drowns-in-neighborhood-pool/285-b9162494-46d6-4133-9260-3806059e3923

2 hours ago, Chris said:

Municipal pools are a waste of taxpayer dollars from the outset. Why spend millions on something that is only in use two, maybe three months out of the year and for a limited population in the first place?

While I understand this point, specifically in relation to municipal pools.....I have to disagree with the premise that just because seasonal public recreation is only utilized by a limited population, it is necessarily a waste of taxpayer dollars.

When it’s something like Youth Hockey, where the  fees start at $300-400 plus the cost of equipment?  Yes, I agree that’s a waste of taxpayer dollars. In that case we are talking about a “limited population” that is a niche group of middle-class families who pretty much have the means to participate in whatever recreation they choose.

Wanting to stay cool isn’t confined to a niche group like hockey. It’s a pretty universal recreation. That’s why there are 10 million residential/privately owned pools in the US.....compared to 300,000 municipal pools.

And with a public summer aquatic recreation (whether a pool, splash park or lake with public swimming, etc)  the “limited population” utilizing them is often a demographic that has limited options to cool off at an affordable cost.

Urban and low income residents are less likely to have “private” options than suburban or rural homeowners (more and more of whom have a backyard pool) and those living in middle-class condo/apartment complexes with a pool.

So, while green, educational use of the space is great, and perhaps some commercial use (café, ice cream stand, etc)......I think a water feature should also be part of the plan.

Some sort of splash park, with and play areas and multiple splashpads (that actually work) is far less construction cost, staffing, operational costs and considerations, and safety/liability concerns than a pool. And, although it may not be used by a huge segment of the City’s population.....I think it would be good for the community.

20 hours ago, Chris said:

That line dividing "soda" and "pop" is pretty funny. Looks like it about runs through our house, and here, it's "soda"

When I moved to the area as a young adult, I forced myself to start calling it "soda", as no one I knew seemed to say "pop". 

As a kid I lived in Northern KY, then moved to Iowa. It was "pop" or occasionally "soda pop".  Just "soda" would have confused it with an "ice cream soda" that was a popular treat served at many restaurants. 

3 hours ago, Kevin said:

Say I had 5 million to have a new one rebuilt to the exact same look as the original, what's next?

I read an article not long ago that the W. Elmira and Harris Hill pools are having issues finding life guards because kids are not taking the life guard courses as much as they used to. 

You're spot on. While some are arguing that we need to find the funds and resources to rebuild, that pipe dream doesn't address the operation needs if it were rebuilt. 

And the struggle to recruit lifeguards is not an isolated problem or unique to those local pools ....it's a nationwide problem. 

It being reported in every national news outlet that: Lifeguard shortage may force half of public pools in U.S. to close or limit hours

Quote

 

This isn't the first year there has been more demand than supply for lifeguards, but across the country, states and municipalities are facing their worst shortages on record. In New York City, even a 9% pay increase and sign-on bonus hasn't convinced people to take the job, leaving the city with just a third of the lifeguards it needs. 

Across the country, about half of the nation's 309,000 public pools will be forced to close their doors or reduce hours, according to the American Lifeguard Association. 

 

26 minutes ago, Andy said:

The headline makes it sound like the song was removed from a more traditional release, which it’s really not. It’s a kids toy. The song is still perfectly intact on all the music streaming services, and I feel like you’d be hard pressed to find a Queen fan who really cares about using a toy to listen to their music. 

Oh FFS.....I just looked up Yoto.....

You're right. Hardly worth reporting, and it's sad that Billboard is thirsty enough for clicks that they made such an intentionally misleading headline. 

I thought it was an actual "Queen's Greatest Hits" album type release. Not knowing what "Yoto" was, I assumed from the story that anything with Queen, it was some normal platform/market that I just hadn't heard of.

Quote

The song doesn’t make the cut on Yoto, most likely due its lyrical content. On it, the late Freddie Mercury sings, “Left alone with big fat Fanny/ She was such a naughty nanny/ Big woman, you made a bad boy out of me.”

I guess some might call that a little racy, but certainly not as explicit as a lot more stuff out there. So, it’s not clear if what “lyrical content” was the reason to leave it out.

The article reads like the disclaimer about “adult themes” is for the songs that are on the album release....so is it sex and drugs OK, but ‘fat’ reference is too offensive???

It wouldn’t surprise me. I know I often hear radio playing a version of Dire Straits’ Money for Nothing that says “That little maggot, he’s a millionaire”.....and seldom hear “Lola” played at all.

And I fully expect at some point in the near future, the question “All the same old cliches, ‘Is it woman, is it man?’ " will be cut from Bob Segar’s Turn The Page. LOL

7 minutes ago, Chris said:

Boy he certainly doesn’t hold back, does he?

For sure!!

But in a purely “commercial” sense.....he’s pretty spot on.

People would absolutely show up to see a sequel where the characters evolved years later into a plot twist that showed the couple in a different light.

A lot the fans who watched the first movie (whether as football fans or just Sandra Bullock lovers), as well as those who didn’t watch but a whole new audience who tend to buy into and advocate the “white guilt angle.”  And I bet she'd get another Oscar if she can pull off turning her role from a loving charitable "mom" into a selfish villain. LOL

10 hours ago, Elmira Telegram said:

One reason for the Greensboro, North Carolina, resident’s anxiety: the unpredictability of the stock market. When the financial crisis hit in 2008, he recalls, “our savings essentially got halved in a matter of weeks.” 

Then there’s inflation and rising health care costs. Financial advisers have counseled the couple to save more, but the costs of raising their three children — now 22, 20 and 13 — have made that impossible, Cundall says.

I think another factor that's being overlooked is that more of the older Baby Boomers and back retired without debt. Especially mortgage debt, which often represents up to 30% or more of a household income. 

For that generation.....first homes were typically purchased when a couple was in their 20s or 30s with a 15-20 year mortgage. Even if they used their equity to upgrade to larger homes 10 or 15 years later, it was paid off well before retirement loomed.

But now 30 years is the standard mortgage length and 40 years are offered in many places.....while 30 year mortgages were almost unheard of until the 1980s when interest rates skyrocketed. That was also followed by an explosion in home equity loans. Since solid real estate is a safe collateral banks offer way lower interest if you sign your equity over to them and keep extending your "housing costs" in 10-15 year increments.  

I've known people in their late 40s and 50s buying new homes with a 30 year mortgage that represents around 30% of their household income.  Not kids just starting out...working couples earning dual incomes at "late career" tenured salaries. That point in career and experience is usually expected to be the highest income time of our lives.

How do they (and the lenders) expect to keep paying that size mortgage up to age 75-80 (on top of inflation)?? To sign up for a plan to maintain that level of income up until that age....well (no shit) you're not likely going to "retire and simply enjoy the golden years” with that looming over your wallet. 

By the time their parents were reaching that 40-50, they were done with mortgages and could add all of that income to their savings. So it was OK to plan to retire with a monthly income much lower than they were bringing home while working, and still live comfortably. 

8 hours ago, Chris said:

If memory serves me right, it's not the first time they've been at odds. I believe that shortly after the movie came out he said something negative about the way he was portrayed in the movie.

I do recall reading about something to that effect. I don't know if the book was the same or not, but the movie did make his 'character' come off as borderline Down's Syndrome. I could understand his dismay.

But expressing an opinion that you're a bit insulted by an author's portrayal of you is way different than a lawsuit against the family claiming they've stolen millions from you. 

I don't know who this Jason Whitlock is, but he has an interesting take on the issue. 

On 8/16/2023 at 12:17 PM, Chris said:

Since we don't have a Sports section...

Has anyone been following the "Blind Side" drama that's unfolding?

Conservatorship under scrutiny amid public dispute between Michael Oher, Tuohy family

I'm sure a lot more will come out from both sides. 

Even not a big football fan, I enjoyed the movie. But even if Oher's allegations are 100% true: the family exploited him and he got nothing from the book or movie, etc., I  just can't wrap my head the people making Ridiculous calls for Sandra Bullock to return her The Blind Side Oscar

7 minutes ago, Chris said:

The way it was explained to me in a conversation I had a while back is, the county does until it's time for the fair. Then for 2-3 weeks the Ag Society has "full control" of the grounds.

I sort of thought that was the case...that the Ag Society and Fair Board are essentially tenants that rent the fairgrounds from County like any other organization does throughout the year.

Which begs the question....does the County have some Board of its own that is tasked with developing ideas and bringing in events? (Particularly regarding the proposed Community Center /Farm Market project). Or does the County pretty just wait for interested groups to submit an application to use the grounds and process the paperwork?

It seems like a diverse group of people from the around community and local organizations (that can actively engage in generating interest and events) would be far more valuable than a “passive” ownership and management by the County (where the Building & Grounds Department simply processes applications as they are submitted and collects the requisite fees).

Like the “team” Margeson has said the Arena will have.  And honestly, I think the type of venue a new Building offers (along with the Fairgrounds as a whole – indoor usage, grandstands, all that space) would be far more practical, more utilized, and draw more visitors (local and out of area) than the Arena ever will.

I’m curious, aside from organizing the Fair through the Fair Board, does the Ag Society oversee/manage the Fairgrounds as a property/venue?

I think we really need a year round Community Center that can host Flea Markets and Produce Markets like Lewisburg or the Windmill, as well as entertainment and community events.

And I guess I’d hope to see a County Fairgrounds Board of some sort at the helm. With varied backgrounds and strengths, drawing from whole community beyond single organization (although the Ag Society is certainly an important group to have as part of the whole).

Hi, I think you meant to address that to me.

And I most certainly did allude to my involvement in Foster Care. But apparently you overlooked the entire context in your haste to clutch your pearls over the word "obtuse".

Seriously??  

I don't have to be a botanist to know the root systems of those trees stretch underground to a comparable breadth as the canopies. The tree roots are a good 20-30% of the foundation. Removing them would require jack-hammering which would destroy the entire foundation that's holding up the structure.  

So, I think the numerous groups and organizations who have raised funds (and dedicated time to finding a way to save it) had good reason to conclude that the task of repairing is not feasible 

If that looks to you like something that can be repaired with some scraping and painting, then I truly am embarrassed for you. 

19 minutes ago, Elizabeth Whitehouse said:

Obtuse: annoyingly insensitive or slow to understand; difficult to understand, especially deliberately so. Neither of these applies to me.

I disagree.

When I made an analogy of welcoming foster kids (Maui victims), your smug jab telling "me" that I should consider foster care was indeed annoyingly insensitive....since your self-righteous ego showed zero sensitivity to what my personal history with the Foster Care system may be. And it sure seemed deliberate.

1 hour ago, Elizabeth Whitehouse said:

Did those individuals and groups do their own studies, or did they rely on a report from Fagan Engineering which put a price to fix it based on what their charge would be?

Have you looked into the condition of the facility, or are you just relying on what the sentiments of people who grew up swimming in that pool? 

I'll assume you didn't notice the link I provided twice in the topic to  very good video about this pool from a local young man was shared on this site. 

Pay attention ----> HERE's the link AGAIN.

That underlined text is called a "link" and if you click it, you can take 20 minutes of your time to see for yourself what people here are saying about the condition being far beyond something that can be rehabilitated perhaps understand why we are embarrassed for you when you suggest  "volunteers to scrape and paint" as a solution. 

And, in case a 20 minute video is way too effort for you exert to learn about an issue that you seem so fervidly passionate about....perhaps you missed my earlier drone photo that shows the full grown trees growing in the pool floor (foundation of the structure):

35 minutes ago, Elizabeth Whitehouse said:

MsKreed. Americans are as unfriendly to foster children as they are to immigrants. Perhaps you should consider taking in one of the roughly 400,000 children who are in foster care.

That's rich.

Perhaps you should consider refraining from making obtuse assumptions about how many foster children my family and I may or may not have hosted over the decades....or how many children we've adopted.

And the fact that some of my family members are currently fostering at-risk children (that they chose to welcome into their home), in no way obligates them to extend their compassion and kindness to an inestimable number of lodgers who show up uninvited.

Just like willingly helping Muai victims is not the same as being Involuntarily burdened by illegal migrants. 

Maui disaster: Approximately 13,000 residents involuntarily displaced during an unprecedented one-time event.

Illegal Immigration: Over 100,000 intentional crossings every month as an ongoing occurrence.

17 minutes ago, Elizabeth Whitehouse said:

MsKreed. According to Amnesty International (and other sources): The right to seek asylum was incorporated into international law following the atrocities of World War II. Congress adopted key provisions of the Geneva Refugee Convention (including the international definition of a refugee) into U.S. immigration law when it passed the Refugee Act of 1980.

Anyone who is on foreign soil and asks for asylum must be granted a hearing.

The current migration crisis might be less if, instead of broadening the definition of of "asylum seekers" to include things like just "not liking" their homeland.... we followed Amnesty International's definition (you can find the link HERE)

Also...the international definition of a refugee used by both the UN Refugee Convention and Refugee Act of 1980 do not include anything about fleeing because of  "lack of jobs" or "high crime rates":

Quote

“someone who is unable or unwilling to return to their country of origin owing to a well-founded fear of being persecuted for reasons of race, religion, nationality, membership of a particular social group, or political opinion.”

Sort of like equating six random home intruders taking up residence in your home without permission....to being willing to arrange through proper channels to have one foster child stay in your home.