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Chris

First Arena

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I see in the news that there's contract issues between Robbie Nichols and the Chemung County IDA, leaving the future of hockey in Elmira in question. 

Seems like this comes up every, what, five years? 

If hockey was such a viable commodity to this area, the stands would be full ( except last year of course, that's understandable ). I understand there are people who enjoy the game, but in my opinion it is not worth the cost to the community as a whole. The county needs to dump this dead weight of a building once and for all. Either sell it or tear it down. Hell, it would serve more purpose in the community as a giant parking lot than it does now. 

To quote The Hurricane, that's my opinion, what's yours?

 

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1 hour ago, Chris said:

I see in the news that there's contract issues between Robbie Nichols and the Chemung County IDA, leaving the future of hockey in Elmira in question. 

Seems like this comes up every, what, five years? 

If hockey was such a viable commodity to this area, the stands would be full ( except last year of course, that's understandable ). I understand there are people who enjoy the game, but in my opinion it is not worth the cost to the community as a whole. The county needs to dump this dead weight of a building once and for all. Either sell it or tear it down. Hell, it would serve more purpose in the community as a giant parking lot than it does now. 

To quote The Hurricane, that's my opinion, what's yours?

 

I do agree for the most part however, putting last year aside, it's too bad they can't figure something out for just one more year. There are new businesses, new jobs, lots of new  apartments etc within walking distance down there who may actually help fill that Arena if hockey is really a thing.  If even with all that growth they can't fill the stands then I'm with you.  Sell it or remove it.

Edited by KarenK

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From what I read it seems to be the IDA causing the issues. Robbie Nichols is saying he has been trying to set up a meeting for a couple years and the IDA keeps blowing him off. I do agree the county does need to get rid of it and get it back on the tax rolls. The issue is they want to sell it, while maintain all control of what happens to it. 

If I owned it, hockey would be a thing of the past. Take down the boards and turf the surface, then it can be used all year long for soccer,  lacrosse. Make some modifications to the seating and then you can also do arena football.  

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1 hour ago, Kevin said:

The issue is they want to sell it, while maintain all control of what happens to it. 

Who the hell cares what the new owner does with it? Geezus it's got to be better than paying for a largely vacant building. 

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i like Kevin's idea.

County needs to get out and do it fast, the arena is neither a draw nor stable venue for income.

as far as Nichols: 1. Pios give away a ton of tickets and still cannot fill the stands, when he first took over the arena, i remember he was trying to get the county to reimburse him for expenditures that were HIS responsibility.

for 125/ month(covid aside) he had plenty opportunity to get more than just hockey in there. if past experience would have taught him, its not a long term profit idea

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also, another thought:

Is the Joe Roman (deputy Supervisor) the same fellow that now runs the IDA?

JUst wondering if there is a link between Chamberlain not being able to build and issues with nailing agreement with nichols

 

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If there is a demand for whatever events are offered, consumers will show up and pay enough to cover operations/utilities, staffing, improvements, maintenance and [get this].....property taxes.

It is abundantly clear that public demand is lacking for hockey, supplemented by electronics road shows and such. I'd think Tag's is living proof that people will show up and shell out $$ for stuff they actually want. 

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4 hours ago, MsKreed said:

If there is a demand for whatever events are offered, consumers will show up and pay enough to cover operations/utilities, staffing, improvements, maintenance and [get this].....property taxes.

It is abundantly clear that public demand is lacking for hockey, supplemented by electronics road shows and such. I'd think Tag's is living proof that people will show up and shell out $$ for stuff they actually want. 

And there you have the short and sweet of it , “ public demand is Lacking for Hockey “ and this has been the case for quite some time ! 
The Arena was and is the most poorly planned and located project . And as mentioned before rears its ugly money suck head every few years , becomes a point of public contention for that period of time then slips into the background again ! 
I personally do not believe anyone could make a thriving self supporting business out of this , our local Oak Island Money Pit ! 

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I could be completely off the mark here, but my understanding is they’d hoped to work with another local concert promoter who, as it turns out, prefers to keep the acts at their location instead.

I don’t know that for 100%, so no names, but I recall hearing something along those lines. Which may explain the lack of a good concert schedule there in, well, ever. That or they’ve never actually ever really tried too much.

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I have always heard the arena has a tinny sound to it when concerts are there. I have never been to a concert there, so I don't know. I just remember hearing someone say that. 

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Been to just 3 concerts there and never heard it tinny but i can see a problem if the sound people weren’t up to the task ! 

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Sound wise it presents some challenges, but a lot of places do. A good sound person can make it work.

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2 hours ago, Kevin said:

I have always heard the arena has a tinny sound to it when concerts are there. I have never been to a concert there, so I don't know. I just remember hearing someone say that. 

 

1 hour ago, Hal said:

Been to just 3 concerts there and never heard it tinny but i can see a problem if the sound people weren’t up to the task ! 

 

1 hour ago, Chris said:

Sound wise it presents some challenges, but a lot of places do. A good sound person can make it work.

So...the take away I'm getting is that facility (as it sits) is not good for concerts, which in all likelihood would have more demand. But, as a sports venue, there is not enough demand. 

So...whether the answer is renovations that would improve sound quality, or razing the place to build whatever is in demand ......those changes should be made by (and expenses incurred by) whatever private entity decides to take on whatever private enterprise that may be successful in that space. 

Government (local or otherwise) should not exist to prop up private enterprise. 

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17 hours ago, MsKreed said:

So...the take away I'm getting is that facility (as it sits) is not good for concerts, which in all likelihood would have more demand. But, as a sports venue, there is not enough demand. 

If the sound issues I heard about exist it should just take some well placed insulation to correct it. Something a sound engineer could tell them where it needs to be fixed.

As for sports if it could do more than 1 sport and appeal to a greater audience I am sure it could at least break even.

One major cost for a hockey arena is the ice plant, which last I knew was old and outdated. If I remember right the newer ice plants they could buy are not compatible with the plumbing under the concrete that keeps everything frozen, so it would require demolition and a completely new setup for a new ice plant and that cost was well over 200k if I am remembering right. 

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In a post on his personal social media page, Elmira Enforcers owner Robbie Nichols said "goodbye" to Elmira's First Arena on the eve of expiration of the team's contract with the Chemung County Industrial Development Agency ( CCIDA ).

Quote

 

It is a very emotional day as we leave First Arena," Nichols wrote. "Thank you to my amazing wife, family, employees, friends and Elmira Enforcers players and staff, it has been a wild ride. We brought First Arena back to life. We hosted over 70 events our first year. ( From being a closed arena that could not make ice, roof leaking like a fountain and 100 other issues.)
 
First Arena returned to life for 2 years, then Covid hit, we honored all our obligations, we paid every bill. Thank you to all our great season ticket holders, thank you to all our great sponsors. Thank you to the community for letting us bag groceries, visiting children at schools, visit local hospitals, and many other charity events. ( We ❤️ Christmas Eve, helping the less fortunate.) We will try to negotiate with the CCIDA. (Hopefully this is not goodbye, this is now in the hands of the CCIDA)

 

When the topic of the First Arena came up at today's CCIDA meeting, the group went into Executive Session. So far there is no word what the county intends to do as far as First Arena and its future with the Elmira Enforcers is concerned. 

 
 
 
 

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According to the news, the CCIDA released the following statement;

The lease agreement with CAN-USA expires on July 16, 2021.  At that time the Chemung County Industrial Development Agency will take functional control of First Arena for insurance, operational, legal, and other compliance purposes.  This is intended to be a temporary situation while the CCIDA considers all options for First Arena, as multiple organizations have expressed interest.  Each will have an opportunity to provide materials and meet with CCIDA leadership, including CAN-USA. "

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I can't recall ever hearing the final outcome of the money he was asking CCIDA to reimburse him for (all or most of which appeared to be quite clearly maintenance and upkeep for which he, as a "tenant" paying obscenely low rent, had agreed to pay for in the contract).

 

I sure wish there was a news reporter willing to dig up and/or FOIA that information.

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1 hour ago, MsKreed said:

I can't recall ever hearing the final outcome of the money he was asking CCIDA to reimburse him for (all or most of which appeared to be quite clearly maintenance and upkeep for which he, as a "tenant" paying obscenely low rent, had agreed to pay for in the contract).

 

I sure wish there was a news reporter willing to dig up and/or FOIA that information.

Does one need to be a reporter to do that? I found the application to request information on the county website. If I get time I’ll fill it out and send it in, hoping there’s not too many pages at 0.25 a copy.
 

Writing is kind of my primary daily focus right now. Juggling that and keeping this site going is a trick some days. But I’ll try.

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13 minutes ago, Chris said:

Does one need to be a reporter to do that?

I guess anyone can make requests, if they know the correct place to send requests for various information....and have the time/patience to try again when things are rejected for lack of specific detail or not addressed to the exact office/entity.

Before filing that, I imagine taking time to comb through what is available on http://chemungcountyida.com/ could be helpful. I suppose just because we didn’t see a press release on f/or how much they paid CAN-USA, doesn’t necessarily mean it isn’t published someplace there. I might scour that site over the weekend.

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Last I knew they said the issues were not going to reimbursed.  

Now off of a sudden they have multiple organizations interested in the arena? A few years ago they couldn't find anyone to take it. 

If they do have multiple organizations interested it makes me wonder if that is the reason they didn't meet to extend the last agreement. 

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A quick review of the minutes from July 2019 seems to look like they only reimbursed for the properly documented expenses:

Quote

On Motion No. 2019-69 by Ms. Burlew, seconded by Mr. Kraft and unanimously carried, the Chemung County Industrial Development Agency will reimburse CAN-USA for capital expenses incurred with proper documentation per the lease agreement within a two-week time limit. A follow-up letter will be sent to Mr. Robbie Nichols.

 http://chemungcountyida.com/meeting-minutes/

Later meetings referred to Nichols spending $140,000 of "his own money"....and discussed CCIDA's responsibility to replace the boiler that appears to have been approved for $66,000 in November 2019.

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3 hours ago, Kevin said:

Last I knew they said the issues were not going to reimbursed.  

Now off of a sudden they have multiple organizations interested in the arena? A few years ago they couldn't find anyone to take it. 

If they do have multiple organizations interested it makes me wonder if that is the reason they didn't meet to extend the last agreement. 

Same shite Kevin , just a a different day/year and the same old boondoggle! 

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My 1 main question is how does a metal roof deteriorate so bad in 21 years that it needs replacing? Metal roofs are supposed to last longer than asphalt roofs and they last 20, 30+ years. A commercial metal roof should last a lot longer than that.

 

I am sure they will try to blame Robbie Nichols for it.  But that is a landlord (The IDA) issue that should have been dealt with a long time ago. 

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16 minutes ago, Kevin said:

I don't think they ever had an official buyer did they?  Everyone wanted to lease or have contingencies that continued to make Elmira/Chemung County mostly responsible.  Tearing it down may be the most economically feasible way to go.

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