Chemung County Fairgrounds - Is There A Better Way To Utilize Them?

[Chris 2,141]

The flea market at Lewisburg PA has a really nice produce market there on Sundays, which I guess will be moving indoors and running year round. It's too bad we don't have something like that here. I wonder whatever happened to that indoor farmer's market they've talked about at the fairgrounds? I'll have to ask Rodney, I saw a post on his FB page the other day about the fair. 

[Kevin 334]

They used to have a nice flea market just on the other side of Binghamton. Not sure if it's still going. 

The issue I see at these places is everyone thinks they are a reseller and over price most things.

[Chris 2,141]

1 hour ago, Kevin said:

They used to have a nice flea market just on the other side of Binghamton. Not sure if it's still going. 

Jimay's is still going, although I don't think it's as big as it was before the flooding and then the COVID stuff. I haven't felt the urge to drive down there to find out. 

As for the indoor market, Rodney said he thinks it's part of the 2023 Budget, and was part of Moss's ARP proposal. 

[KarenK 381]

5 hours ago, Chris said:

 

They do have a really nice produce market there on Sundays, which I guess will be moving indoors and running year round. It's too bad we don't have something like that here. I wonder whatever happened to that indoor farmer's market they've talked about at the fairgrounds? I'll have to ask Rodney, I saw a post on his FB page the other day about the fair. 

 

The do have a year round farmers market at Chamberlain Acres.

[Hal 340]

4 hours ago, Chris said:

Jimay's is still going, although I don't think it's as big as it was before the flooding and then the COVID stuff. I haven't felt the urge to drive down there to find out. 

As for the indoor market, Rodney said he thinks it's part of the 2023 Budget, and was part of Moss's ARP proposal. 

Jimays was one of the best for flea mkt type stuff ! Pretty much something for everyone . As for the Fairgrounds it could be utilized quite a bit more with more reasonable  rates for events . The biggest reason the Chemung Valley Old Timers didn’t have the annual event was the cost of “ renting “ the grounds at $1000.00 per day … that right from the horses mouth , totally unreasonable! 

[Chris 2,141]

A guy I went to school with is on the Fair committee.We had a long chat one night about it and he said the costs they face make it so difficult. The county kicks in nothing towards even the grounds... they have to pay for everything. And people don't realize how much major music acts cost these days. 

[MsKreed 1,163]

16 minutes ago, Chris said:

A guy I went to school with is on the Fair committee.We had a long chat one night about it and he said the costs they face make it so difficult. The county kicks in nothing towards even the grounds... they have to pay for everything. And people don't realize how much major music acts cost these days. 

Call me a cynic.....but I think the Fairgrounds would be much more deserving of a $375k ARP investment than the Arena.

Edited October 10, 2022 by MsKreed

[Chris 2,141]

1 minute ago, MsKreed said:

Call me a cynic.....but I think the Fairgrounds would be much more deserving of a $375k ARP investment than the Arena.

I couldn't agree with you more. The taxpayers of this county have dumped a lot of money into that place and enough it enough. An indoor farmers market and convention center would bring money from all over. Hell, if they had a regular produce stand like they do in Lewisburg, I'd be there every week!

 

[Hal 340]

5 minutes ago, MsKreed said:

Call me a cynic.....but I think the Fairgrounds would be much more deserving of a $375k ARP investment than the Arena.

Ditto here , a much better use of those funds ! The Fairgrounds  has much more potential but as usual the County will throw more money at that boondoggle we got stuck with and has been hanging around our necks far too long !  … the arena . 

[KarenK 381]

2 hours ago, MsKreed said:

Call me a cynic.....but I think the Fairgrounds would be much more deserving of a $375k ARP investment than the Arena.

Although I don't disagree with limiting any more money into the arena, I don't think year round fairgrounds will work either.  I do know that although it's the CC fairgrounds they don't actually run things.  I'm thinking 3 ft of snow would effectively shut the place down for the winter.

[Hal 340]

Oops,It would seem  I was mistaken in thinking the Fairgrounds was owned and operated by the County ?! Could I get clarification please ? 

[KarenK 381]

9 minutes ago, Hal said:

Oops,It would seem  I was mistaken in thinking the Fairgrounds was owned and operated by the County ?! Could I get clarification please ? 

I believe it has it's own board and is operated by CC Ag.  I also believe everyone may have their own ideas on how things should be run

[Hal 340]

8 minutes ago, KarenK said:

I believe it has it's own board and is operated by CC Ag.  I also believe everyone may have their own ideas on how things should be run

Got it Karen .Thanks much for clearing that up for me ! That said , someone still needs to get their heads out of 🤔… the sand . That is one place that I think is not being used as much as it could or should ! Forgive my saying this , its just the Arena on steroids… going by there most every trip to town its just empty , nothing happening ! Shame that …

[Chris 2,141]

Chemung County owns the fairgrounds and facilities, and the fair board uses them. But they have to pay for all things involved such as cleanup after the fair.

An indoor market wouldn’t be any different than any other year round facility. Plow the parking lot and paths to the building, and voilà. Just like they do in Lewisburg for their facilities.

 

[Chris 2,141]

Let me see if it's okay to share what I was told about the costs and all that to make the fair happen each year.

[MsKreed 1,163]

3 hours ago, Chris said:

An indoor market wouldn’t be any different than any other year round facility. Plow the parking lot and paths to the building, and voilà. Just like they do in Lewisburg for their facilities.

I agree. 

Obviously, the grandstands are useless when they're covered in snow.....but I'd think that the indoor facilities could be used for events like produce markets or craft fairs. 

[Chris 2,141]

Here’s what I was told:

“We don’t receive any money or support from the county. The county owns the fairgrounds but there is a clause in the contract that says the fair can use the property two weeks out of the year.

All the money we make is through gate admission, vendor fees and ticket sales from the shows. And sponsors.

Whatever is left after all the bills are paid ( the fair has a $300,000 operating cost ) is profit and that money is out towards the following fair.

Nobody on the fair board gets paid. We are all volunteers except for the grounds cleaners which we hire through a temp agency.”

Ill add that in a previous conversation, this person told me that if they have $30,000 going into the following year, they are doing good. The costs were broken down, including the fact that the fair board has to pay for everything including renting the tents, portable toilets, golf carts, dumpsters, etc. The insurance for that week alone is almost $20k.

[Adam 372]

1 hour ago, Chris said:

Here’s what I was told:

“We don’t receive any money or support from the county. The county owns the fairgrounds but there is a clause in the contract that says the fair can use the property two weeks out of the year.

All the money we make is through gate admission, vendor fees and ticket sales from the shows. And sponsors.

Whatever is left after all the bills are paid ( the fair has a $300,000 operating cost ) is profit and that money is out towards the following fair.

Nobody on the fair board gets paid. We are all volunteers except for the grounds cleaners which we hire through a temp agency.”

Ill add that in a previous conversation, this person told me that if they have $30,000 going into the following year, they are doing good. The costs were broken down, including the fact that the fair board has to pay for everything including renting the tents, portable toilets, golf carts, dumpsters, etc. The insurance for that week alone is almost $20k.

almost seems like another Arena situation...having a Fair-type event, or any other for that matter should be much more equitable than the host squeaking through...i will say(for what good it would do) the County should NOT be pouring ANY money into the fair, no tax monies should be propping up private business

use the money to finally see a venue built there for year-round usage, it could encourage more agriculture as well as cottage industry if there were actual venues for building markets

[MsKreed 1,163]

11 hours ago, Adam said:

almost seems like another Arena situation...having a Fair-type event, or any other for that matter should be much more equitable than the host squeaking through...i will say(for what good it would do) the County should NOT be pouring ANY money into the fair, no tax monies should be propping up private business

use the money to finally see a venue built there for year-round usage, it could encourage more agriculture as well as cottage industry if there were actual venues for building markets

That's what I'd like to see...... County owned property utilized to support/grow economic opportunities of small local entrepreneurs more than to increase revenue for the County Fair event itself.

Yes, such a venue should be able to charge vendors to cover operating expenses, but the goal should be to promote the merchants, rather than grow a profit for the operators. 

A year round venue that is affordable (and ideally gives  preference to local and independent vendors). There are already some  commercial venues around the region that apparently can (and do) make profits.  Unfortunately, many small entrepreneurs don't benefit from those because they struggle with the cost. 

[Hal 340]

12 hours ago, Adam said:

use the money to finally see a venue built there for year-round usage, it could encourage more agriculture as well as cottage industry if there were actual venues for building markets

Yes , lets set aside the “fair” for the moment . The grounds are there , parking is there but there is no “there “ there ! The idea of a large building for anything from a riding / showing arena which would double nicely  as an indoor flea market / farmers market . The possibility of a convention type building , although a great idea , is I believe never going to happen but I still would like to see it on the table . As said earlier getting back to the rural concept would go a ways toward drawing back in all those that stopped attending . Again as with the Chemung Valley Old Timers the cost of $1000.00 per day to host an event is as prohibitive as the “ Board “ getting any major Acts to perform . But if that rental fee were lowered to fit the budgets of other small groups that would like to hold different events in conjunction with the indoor/ outdoor flea market on a weekly basis would be worth a shot . Making up for low draw events such as the late great County Fair with high volume smaller events is just good business sense ! As for Carnival Shows i can only imagine how difficult it is to find one that fits in these days with what the Board is or should be looking for but with all the other things happening around the region who would take their families to ride some poorly maintained , uncleaned  and quite frankly boring rides ?! 
To sum up , all due respect to Any involved Board members  , maybe its time for some that have lost their interest in the forward thinking needed to bring the Grounds into the present and future to step aside for others that would like to give it a go ! 
MsKreed and seemed to be having the same thoughts at the same time but she types faster and i am long winded and slower on gathering thoughts and typing 🤔😂.

Edited October 12, 2022 by Hal

[Chris 2,141]

26 minutes ago, Hal said:

As for Carnival Shows i can only imagine how difficult it is to find one that fits in these days with what the Board is or should be looking for...

Everything they offer costs a lot of money. My understanding is even the "free" shows the fair provides cost around $5,000

Major acts like George Jones, before he died, are at least six figures. Some are over a million. The Possum was $350,000 and Reba McEntire was $500,000 6-7 years ago. Charlie Daniels was a bargain at $80,000, but I think that's one of those, "we're in the area already" prices. 

 

26 minutes ago, Hal said:

To sum up , all due respect to Any involved Board members  , maybe its time for some that have lost their interest in the forward thinking needed to bring the Grounds into the present and future to step aside for others that would like to give it a go ! 

The fair board has no say as to what goes on there, except two weeks a year, for the actual fair. The rest is on the county itself. 

[Kevin 334]

Plus all the horse people think they own the fairgrounds and arena and complain anytime it is used for anything else.

[Chris 2,141]

As an afterthought, I'd be fine with a one time infusion of cash into the fair boards coffers, and make it so they'd have to report to the county where the money is utilized and how they're doing financially going forward. I do not think having a county politician involved in the county fair is a good idea, there's too much room for yet more self-serving activity.

[Chris 2,141]

1 minute ago, Kevin said:

Plus all the horse people think they own the fairgrounds and arena and complain anytime it is used for anything else.

Are they renting the facilities at that time?

[Hal 340]

2 minutes ago, Chris said:

The fair board has no say as to what goes on there, except two weeks a year, for the actual fair. The rest is on the county itself. 

As i said before , keeping the “Fair “ out of the equation and concentrating on the actual grounds which is operated by Chemung County Building and Grounds . The fee schedule for grounds usage actually doesn’t look all that prohibitive except for the whole grounds portion . A promoter could use some of those buildings for indoor ( smaller ) flea /farmers markets , although i don’t remember them being heated they would suffice for warmer months into Fall . The inner track field would also be ideal for the same use and actually i remember  we as BSA held at least one Scout o Rama in that area . Here is the fee schedule for this last year . 
 

Permit For Use of the Chemung County Fairgrounds
(read the conditions carefully before signing)
PLEASE SIGN ALL COPIES AND RETURN ALL TO:
Chemung County Buildings and Grounds 217 Madison Avenue, Elmira, New York 14901 Phone: 607-737-2843 Fax: 607-737-2848
The undersigned, upon the application of : of
   described buildings, facilities and portions of Fairgrounds on the 20 22 tothe dayof
10:00 o'clock A. M., to 10:00 o'clock P.
day of
,
mailing address
Chemung County, New York, hereby grants permission to the said organization to use the here-in after
insert title of agent
insert name of organization
city, town, village, etc.
of
    ,20 22 ,duringthehoursof
M., subject, however, to the conditions here-in-after set
        forth,viz: (describeherethebuildings,facilitiesandpartsofFairgroundsrequired) Whole grounds reservations (less Horse Show facilities) $1,000.00
    Building #5 4-H Rabbit Barn $250.00/day
Building #4 Livestock Pole Barn $100.00/day
Building #6 Holstein Barn $75.00/day
Under the Grandstand 100.00/day
Fields between Halls and Grandstand $100.00/day
Track Fields $100/day
Building #7 Dairy Pole Barn $100.00/day
Building #30 Display Hall $150.00/day
Grandstand and Stage $500.00/day
Fields by Grandcentral $200.00/day
Picnic Pavilion $150.00/day
          Will you allow any camping during your event ?
We will also be using: Handicapped restroom #8
Horse area restroom #16
  Approximately how many sites
Camping Rate for 2022 is $32.00/night
Octagon restroom #28
            Gate #1 Gate #2 Gate #3 Gate #3A Gate #4 Gate #5
Will there be sub-contractors on the premises If yes, please complete section below
Date of use: _____ Set-up date: _____ Approximate attendance: _____
The conditions subject to which this permit is granted are as follows:
1. The person making application must pay for the use of this Building/Area to the Chemung
County Building Department and certify that he is the authorized agent of the applicant herein and has the authority
to make application for this permit on its behalf and to bind said applicant to observe these conditions.
2. The applicant agrees that adequate funds will be provided if necessary to cover the cost of replacement of broken,
damaged or missing articles, repairs to buildings and property on account of damage beyond normal wear and tear, cleaning or any other operations necessary to put the premises back into the condition as found by the applicant.
3. The permit, under no circumstances, shall be assigned or transferred.
4. The applicant shall not occupy or attempt to occupy any portion of the premises until after the permit bearing all required signatures, has been placed in the hands of the caretaker at Fairgrounds and accepted by him.
5. The applicant shall recognize the authority of the caretaker or other authorized agents of the County and shall comply with their recommendations as to the conduct of the applicant or his use of the buildings, facilities and portions of Fairgrounds names in the permit.
6. The applicant agrees to save the County of Chemung, New York, harmless from any and all damages to the property of the County by reason of his use of said premises. The applicant further agrees to save the County of Chemung,
New York, its officers, servants, employees and agents, or any them harmless and to indemnify them from all and any manner of actions, trespasses, damages, judgments and demands whatsoever, by reason of any matter, cause or thing arising by reason of the use of the hereinbefore described property of said County of Chemung.
7. The applicant, upon receipt of an itemized bill from an authorized Department of County of Chemung, agrees to promptly pay said bill for replacement of broken, damaged or missing articles, repairs to buildings and property on account of damages beyond normal wear and tear, cleaning or any other operations necessary to put the premises back into the conditions as found by this applicant.
       8. The applicant shall provide an original Certificate of Insurance at least thirty (30) business days prior to the first date of facility
usage or event showing evidence of the following minimum limits of insurance or as required by law, whichever is greater. Said Certificate
of insurance shall name Chemung County, 203 Lake Street, Elmira, NY 14901 as additionally insured with not less than 30 days notice of cancellation or non-renewal.

 a. Comprehensive General Liability including contractual, plus spectator coverage with a minimum combined single limit per occurrence of $1,000,000/2,000,000 general aggregate. If the general liability is from a policy of insurance commonly known as Business Owners Policy (BOP) or similar policy, the Certificate must indicate that the liability insurance provided under the BOP/insurance is primary for this event/purpose. NO EXCEPTIONS.
b. If the licensee is incorporated, a business, or has employees, the Certificate of Insurance must include proof of Worker's Compensation.
c. If any other outside vendor is being used for the event, the licensee shall require the same indemnification of the County and require Certificates of Insurance for General Liability and Worker's Compensation (as in a & b) with the County listed as "additional insureds" under the General Liability.
d. _ If this box is checked licensee must provide proof of Umbrella/excess Liability of $5,000,000.
e. Use of alcoholic beverages on the property is prohibited unless a caterer or other vendor licensed to sell/serve
f. If the Organizer/User is on premises for more than 4 nights and the event/activities involve minors the liability insurance must include coverage for Sexual Abuse/Molestation and it must show on the Certificate of insurance.
9. Parking is permitted in the designated areas only.
10. No use of the facilities by the Licensee until all terms and conditions are met including insurance and authorized signature of an authorized Chemung County Buildings and Grounds representative
11. The applicant agrees to give the Building Department at least 10 days advance notice of cancellation of the reservation.
I/We (Licensee) consent to the terms/rules/conditions of said Use of Facilities Agreement as set forth by the County. Failure to adhere to said terms/rules/conditions as outlined in this Use of Facilities Agreement and/or any other correspondence/form relating to said usage, will result in loss of facilities use privileges without regard or compensation.
Dated Signed Donald Bishop
(applicant do not sign in this space) Title - Chemung County Superintendent of Buildings
  In consideration of the issuance of this permit, the undersigned accepts it, subject to the conditions herein contained and agrees to abide thereby.
 Dated
Applicant sign here
Signed
Permit Holders Name
Permit Holders Signature
Receipt #:
     Address
Telephone No.
Amount Paid:
Sub-contractors
Date:
     List any sub-contractors below. Note that each must have all the insurance requirements as the individual /organization submitting this request including the additional insured requirements. Use additional sheets if necessary.
This form must be returned with your original signature prior to facilities usage to:
Chemung County Buildings & Grounds 217 Madison Avenue
Elmira, NY 14901
Received by Chemung County: ________ Insurance Certificate Received: ________ Approved: ________ Permit Mailed: ________ Amount Paid: ________ Copy to Health Dept.:________
          
ll/serve lude