"Yet Another Mass Shooting In America" Superthread

[KarenK 381]

Dave asked if these were hate crimes.  I told him in both cases the shooters were Asian and the victims were Asian so doesn't appear to be.  Cripes the 1st one the shooter was 72yrs old.  Seems more like someone is angry about something.  I would be somehow they are connected.

[TTL News 305]

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Seven people were killed in a mass shooting at The Covenant School in Nashvilleon Monday, including three children and the shooter.

Police identified the shooter as 28-year-old Audrey Elizabeth Hale, who police killed at the scene. Hale was a former student at The Covenant School, according to police.

Hale was an illustrator and graphic designer who used he/him pronouns, according to a police spokesperson. Police said Hale was transgender and they initially identified him by his birth name and gender.

 

Source

[MsKreed 1,163]

Those whose kneejerk response is "more gun control" need to be reminded of this:

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Hale had also planned to attack another location, which Hale realized was too heavily secured and decided against, Drake said.

 

[Andy 70]

9 dead, including shooter, at Allen, Texas mall

[Chris 2,141]

Remember the horror we all felt when Columbine happened?

Now something like this barely gets a reaction out of many of us. Just another day in America.

This nation has been rotting from the inside out for decades. Focusing on and making laws based on what feels “good” vs what feels right.

This is the result.

But the cries will sound, blaming the inanimate object because that’s the easy thing to do. Far easier than looking in the mirror and realizing the real problem is us. 

[MsKreed 1,163]

You’re right, these happen so often that we hadn’t even had a chance to add Wednesday’s   the Atlanta shooting in this discussion.

 

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Deion Patterson had sought treatment around noon Wednesday at the Northside Medical Midtown facility because he was dissatisfied with care he was getting from the Department of Veterans Affairs, his mother told investigators, according to a high-level source with the Atlanta Police Department.

But when doctors wouldn’t give him the anti-anxiety drug Ativan, Patterson got angry, his mother told CNN affiliate WSB. The suspect pulled a handgun and started firing, the Atlanta police source told CNN.

The blanket “mental health” concern is frequently brought up in broad terms that “something” needs to be done.....but we never hear specifics.  I feel that traditional treatments that rely on counseling, supervision and in-depth therapy (in patient or not), have largely been replaced with drugs that often list dangerous behavior as side effects.....yet they are still heavily prescribed to troubled young adults. 

I don’t know if the HIPAA excuse plays a role, but one factor that seems to be brushed under the rug with all kinds of issues.....from gun violence to homelessness. What's conspicuously missing is an honest report of how many of these offenders have been treated with pharmaceutical combinations to address depression, anxiety, ADHD, etc.

I sort of wonder if there could be a huge class-action suit if some lawyer ever got ahold of the data that shows how many mass shooters were taking these drugs (many of which are heavily restricted or even banned in other countries).

Edited May 8, 2023 by MsKreed

[Chris 2,141]

On 5/7/2023 at 9:51 AM, MsKreed said:

I don’t know if the HIPAA excuse plays a role, but one factor that seems to be brushed under the rug with all kinds of issues.....from gun violence to homelessness.

Were I to go all tinfoil hat, I would perhaps see a connection between the implementation of HIPPA and the spike in the number of mass shootings. Perhaps...

I think there's a way around this, at least for research purposes, and you could pool all the mass shooters from Columbine on, assigning each a number, and then compile to desired data from there. At least I think... it would have to be proven that the person or agency compiling the data had a legitimate reason to access it, but where it could get hung up would be, how would that pertain to the treatment of the shooter?

On 5/7/2023 at 9:51 AM, MsKreed said:

...treated with pharmaceutical combinations to address depression, anxiety, ADHD, etc.

Despite the adverts showing happy go lucky people on tv, these drugs are no joke and too often I think people are put on them too easily. Sort of like the opioid crisis. Instead of trying some non-pharmaceutical approach first, a script is written and now they're on a drug that, once you start, is difficult to come off of. ( It occurs to me that part of this could be the fast-food approach to medicine, where the provider is compensated by the number of patients they see in a day, their "productivity" as it's called. )

And a lot of times it's the patients that are as much a part of the problem. Rather than find some other coping mechanism, they know a pill will make it all "go away." 

Opioids get a lot of attention, because, yeah, people are dying from them. But at some point our society needs to take a closer look at the drugs that are being prescribed with what seems to me less scrutiny than it warrants. Perhaps then we'll find that we've been doing this wrong too. 

[MsKreed 1,163]

7 hours ago, Chris said:

Were I to go all tinfoil hat, I would perhaps see a connection between the implementation of HIPPA and the spike in the number of mass shootings. Perhaps...

I suspect that “recommendations” for Ritalin, Prozac and other meds to treat various DSM diagnoses (particularly in youths) started growing around the same time as the HIPAA Act (circa 1996).

 

I tend to think the uptick in those dangerous prescriptions was likely a direct cause that would correlate to the spike in the number of mass shootings (if we could see the numbers). The HIPAA Act itself probably didn’t cause the problem, but it seems to take the discussion off the table about the potential of drug side effects contributing to the issue. Since the data is private and not included in investigations, HIPAA prevents any correlation of Rx/shootings from being identified.

7 hours ago, Chris said:

( It occurs to me that part of this could be the fast-food approach to medicine, where the provider is compensated by the number of patients they see in a day, their "productivity" as it's called. )

And a lot of times it's the patients that are as much a part of the problem. Rather than find some other coping mechanism, they know a pill will make it all "go away." 

Yep....it appears that the Atlanta shooter went off specifically because his demand for Ativan was denied.

I’d also wager a guess that insurance (whether private or Medicaid, etc) are much more eager to pay for a script than the slow and repetitive process of learning and reinforcing coping mechanisms, et.... which entails a lot of billable hours. 

Because let's face it: a 15 minute consult once or twice a year with a script than the higher cost of treatments like intensive therapy on a weekly basis or (especially) the extremely expensive option of inpatient care. 

 

 

Also....it's anecdotal, but with some of these (often young) shooters, possible failures in Red Flag laws have been questioned when the suspect may "have been seen/treated for a mental disorder".  But that is as far as those reports go. Of course (due to HIPAA) we never hear any mention of how many of those 'treatments' included scripts.

Edited May 11, 2023 by MsKreed

[Adam 372]

9 hours ago, Chris said:

where the provider is compensated by the number of patients they see in a day, their "productivity" as it's called. )

Compounded by the "customer satisfaction" approach implemented AND reimbursements are based upon; its gotten more difficult for practitioners to not use medications/ narcotics as front line choices

[TTL News 305]

I'm sure we've missed a few the past week or so, but here's the latest:

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HOLLYWOOD, Fla. (AP) — Nine people were injured when gunfire erupted along a beachside promenade in Hollywood, Florida, sending people frantically running for cover at the crowded beach on Memorial Day.

Police and witnesses said the shooting began as a group of people fought in front of a busy stretch of shops on the Hollywood Oceanfront Broadwalk about 7 p.m. Monday.

The sound of gunshots sent witness Alvie Carlton Scott III ducking for cover behind a tree before he fled on foot at the command of a police officer. Another witness, Jamie Ward, said several young men were fighting when one of them pulled a gun and started firing.

The shooting upended busy holiday weekend festivities at the popular beach destination where there was already a heavy police presence to oversee the big crowds. 

Police spokesperson Deanna Bettineschi said four children between the ages of 1 and 17 were hit, along with five adults between 25 and 65. All of the victims were in stable condition, a hospital spokeswoman said.

At least one person was in custody, but police were looking for more suspects, Bettineschi said.

 

Source

[Adam 372]

and per usual, its scream about decreasing the number of firearms instead of either decreasing the idiots using them, or finding out why they are such idiots(root cause)

[TTL News 305]

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BALTIMORE (AP) — A holiday weekend block party in Baltimore ended tragically after multiple people opened fire, killing two and wounding 30 others, many of them under 18, police said. 

The circumstances leading up to the shooting early Sunday remained under investigation after police spent hours combing a massive crime scene in the Brooklyn Homes area in the southern part of the city. Richard Worley, Baltimore’s acting police commissioner, told reporters there were a total of 30 victims, with more than a dozen believed to be minors.

No arrests had been made by late Sunday. Worley said it wasn’t clear if the shooting was targeted or random.

 

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[TTL News 305]

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A shooting in a Kansas nightclub early Sunday morning left seven people with gunshot wounds and two more people hospitalized after being trampled in a rush for the exits, police said.

Wichita Police Lt. Aaron Moses said investigators believe several shooters opened fire inside the City Nightz club just before 1 a.m. One suspect was in custody as of Sunday morning, Moses said. 

Shots were fired from at least four guns inside the club, Moses said. Police have recovered four guns and were working to determine if they were the weapons the shooters used.

 

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[TTL News 305]

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PHILADELPHIA (AP) — A heavily armed gunman in a bulletproof vest opened fire on the streets of Philadelphia on Monday night, seemingly at a random, killing five people and wounding two boys before surrendering, police said. 

The shootings took place over several city blocks in the southwestern neighborhood of Kingsessing. Responding officers chased the suspect as he continued to fire, and he was arrested in an alley after giving himself up, Police Commissioner Danielle Outlaw said at a news conference.

 

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[TTL News 305]

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DALLAS (AP) — Authorities in Texas say three people were killed and eight people were injured when gunfire erupted following a local festival. 

The shooting in Fort Worth happened at about 11:47 p.m. Monday in the Como neighborhood on the city’s southwest side, just hours after the end of the neighborhood’s annual ComoFest.

Police said shots were fired into a crowd of hundreds of people. Responding officers found multiple victims in a parking lot, including one pronounced dead at the scene. Other victims were transported to local hospitals by ambulance or private vehicles. 

 

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[TTL News 305]

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WASHINGTON (AP) — Nine people were shot and wounded, including two juveniles, early Wednesday in Washington, D.C., police said.

Shortly before 1 a.m., police responded to a report of a shooting on Meade Street in the northeastern quadrant of the U.S. capital, Assistant Chief Leslie Parsons of the Metropolitan Police Department said in a statement on Twitter.

Upon their arrival officers discovered multiple shooting victims, including a 9-year-old and a 17-year-old, Parsons said.

 

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[Adam 372]

at some point( hopefully sooner rather than later) they will turn away from blaming the tools, and seriously look at societal/generational malfunctions

[JustAGuy 12]

What if these are all fake? The more I think about it every shooting is the same. That one out in Colorado 2 years ago looked like the fakest thing I've ever seen. A freelance journalist just happened to know this was going down to film it? Plus if you watched the video you would have noticed the guys camera was filming to one side but the "shots" were going in the other direction. Not that we saw what went down but just by the sound. And why would we not get inside footage from a freelance journalist? Yeah...suspicious. 

Back to these all being the same. Everyone is always depressed and on medication and so on. It doesn't add up to me. Repetition but we are clueless and worried about guns. I'm not even a gun owner for the record. Guns are your one and only defense against tyranny. That's why they want them gone. There was a book years ago written by a guy named Bill Cooper called "Behold A Pale Horse" there is a section in there talking about how the CIA was going to create school shooters. Part of the plan was getting them on medication. These things may be staged. School shootings would never be hard to fake. Just pick kids who already have left that school. Buy off a bunch of family and friends. Nobody ever mentions that the most vocal kid from the "parkland" shooting David Hogg's daddy actually works for the CIA. 

[TTL News 305]

At least 16 people are dead in multiple shootings in Lewiston, Maine Wednesday night, according to multiple law enforcement sources.

At least 50 to 60 people are injured in the incidents, though it’s unclear how many are injured due to gunfire, the sources told CNN.
 

Source

[Adam 372]

three places, wonder if same person, random or something "coordinated"?

[MsKreed 1,163]

Looks like there wasn't a third location. One mentally ill suspect still at large:

[Hal 340]

Does anyone else think that the state of affairs Worldly as well as here in America, are pushing some folks that were on the edge of violence over that edge ? 

[MsKreed 1,163]

36 minutes ago, Hal said:

Does anyone else think that the state of affairs Worldly as well as here in America, are pushing some folks that were on the edge of violence over that edge ? 

Possibly, to some extent. 

But I'm more alarmed at the lack of culpability for trained mental health professionals who "evaluate" dangerous nut jobs and then declare them mentally fit to go on about their delusional lives walking amongst us with weapons.  Like the Buffalo shooter, this guy had already been identified as a threat. 

We will likely not ever know if the "professionals" simply let him go without reporting the danger -- or if they additionally prescribed him meds that exacerbated his violent thoughts. 

If untrained minimum wage bartenders can be held criminally responsible for not recognizing impairment and 'contributing' to DWI fatalities, why aren't those doctors accountable?

[Ann 262]

7 minutes ago, MsKreed said:

Possibly, to some extent. 

But I'm more alarmed at the lack of culpability for trained mental health professionals who "evaluate" dangerous nut jobs and then declare them mentally fit to go on about their delusional lives walking amongst us with weapons.  Like the Buffalo shooter, this guy had already been identified as a threat. 

We will likely not ever know if the "professionals" simply let him go without reporting the danger -- or if they additionally prescribed him meds that exacerbated his violent thoughts. 

If untrained minimum wage bartenders can be held criminally responsible for not recognizing impairment and 'contributing' to DWI fatalities, why aren't those doctors accountable?

I can’t help but wonder, based on recent protests at Universities, if the quality of mental health care professionals has been compromised by the lack of actual education in that field with more focus on “equity” care.  It has become very obvious the the education system in this Country is in serious trouble at all levels.

[Hal 340]

Great points all . Especially the bartender being culpable in the event of an accident by a patron . Carried a step further by the sale of ammunition by a shop owner to  a possible mental case . The barkeeper having , of course at least some indication of impairment. 
I guess a question I would ask is , aren’t these professionals so called Mandated Reporters ? Not that that means much these days .