Russia-Ukraine War Thread

[Twin Tiers Living 558]

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WASHINGTON (AP) — President Donald Trump berated Ukrainian President Volodymyr Zelenskyy for being “disrespectful” Friday in an extraordinary Oval Office meeting, then abruptly called off the signing of a minerals deal with the U.S. that Trump said would have moved Ukraine closer to ending its war with Russia.

The astonishing turn of events could scramble international affairs in Europe and around the globe. During his visit with Trump, Zelenskyy had planned to sign the deal allowing the U.S. greater access to Ukraine’s rare earth minerals, then hold a joint news conference.

 

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President Donald Trump and President Volodymyr Zelensky went to separate rooms after their heated Oval Office exchange, with the Ukrainians wanting the talks to continue.

The White House, however, made it clear it was time for them to go.

Trump ordered that the Ukrainians be told to leave, according to a White House official.

 

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[Chris 3,628]

I won't be surprised to see a major offensive by Russia in the coming days. 

[Chris 3,628]

According to CNN, a White House official says things started off badly from Zelensky’s arrival when Trump made comment about his attire twice in a short time saying Zelensky was “all dressed up.”

Zelensky arrived dressed as he often has, wearing all black attire, his pullover shirt with the Ukrainian trident on the chest. 

[Adam 589]

1.digging digging digging raw earth?

2. You are in the room with two of the 21st century's most visible and famous/infamous leaders and you ask why Zelensky doesnt wear a fucking suit!? im betting his parents are really proud and that fall-back communications degree really came in handy today.....FFS

3. @ 22:47 you can just see vance wanting to show the world he indeed has a pair for his run at the WH

4. 25:55 Zelensky regarding security, hes answering a question asked previously that he didnt have opportunity to, again, laying out his country's position that they have been here before( minsk accords UK/US gave security guarantees when ukraine gave up old soviet nukes and see where that got them), the previous cease-fires Putin "agreed to" then broke, the thousands of children stolen away to russia,  so id be a bit hesitant to just nod and go along as well if he were to then in near future you KNOW it would get turned around on him if/when russian aggression starts again.

5.  38:10 very cogent question, what happens if Russia moves into areas where american interests are digging digging digging? answer: throw insults...this is important relating to Zelensky wanting to know what security guarantees are going to keep putin from repeating his past invasions, is it military response from neighboring countries? if so, then its the same as if ukraine were a Nato member.

6.  OUr POTUS corrects the president of an invaded nation when they were invaded? then when VP even concurs 2014 its OH i wasnt here then....its not about YOU, Z even is giving trump credit in advance for standing up to Putin!

7. 41:53 Z is now responding to Vance's point about diplomacy and taking putin at his word; note that during last campaign cycle, vance and trump both had indicated that Ukraine would likely have to cede territory and make many other concessions so any person with half a brain would be very hesitant, then look at past actions quite similar to what we are hearing throughout this video ended in further aggression and lives lost because russia did not take those Nations "guarantees" seriously, and thousands of Ukrainians have paid the price for it.

8. 43:43 Vance is backed into a corner: so he follows POTUS lead and insults....he makes a crack about Ukrainian conscripts, rightfully Z asks if hes been there and seen these issues first hand. whats vance say? he's seen videos! and continues to insult.

9. 43:19 Z is conceding that in war EVERY nation has had problems...FFS J.D do you think if they were perfect and everything going to plan, Z would be having to be sitting in that room at that very moment? perhaps Vance would realize wars are messy if he actually had been in actual combat instead of reporting on it.

9.  44:20 so now accuse Z of stumping for their opponent; Z was invited by the current administration, toured a munitions factory( could have been in trumpville arkansas for all he could have cared), no republicans were present because they were not invited( as if Z could control THAT), and at that point in time, candidate trump was refusing to meet with Z....so because American politics is a circle jerk of a monkey shit-fight, hes not supposed to continue advocating for his Nation? from this point on the simian shit slinging continues, so much im surprised MTG didnt lump out from behind a curtain to complete the ensemble... its a mix of vance needing to make good sound clips for his future run, trump just needing to have it be about him and poor Z is supposed to just sit there and eat all their shit? fuck that, he showed so much composure, he HAS thanked our Nation, for the money, the military hardware, American families hosting Ukrainians, through this whole meeting, he repeatedly said how strong an ally the U.S has been, thanking god even, WTF does he need to personally thank trump further for just for Vance to prove to the world his balls have dropped? this whole time hes  at there listening to his NAtions slow destruction be boiled down to value of "raw earth" and his peoples' lives reduced to a bullet-point in a boardroom negotiation and now hes supposed to bend over for vance while kissing trumps ring, AND LIKE IT? by not telling either one of them to bend over and kiss their own asses, by having recently offered to resign his Presidency if it meant guaranteed peace, by keeping his responses throughout this 45 minutes, he has shown far more class and leadership than the two sitting to his left. 

[Adam 589]

4 hours ago, Chris said:

According to CNN, a White House official says things started off badly from Zelensky’s arrival when Trump made comment about his attire twice in a short time saying Zelensky was “all dressed up.”

Zelensky arrived dressed as he often has, wearing all black attire, his pullover shirt with the Ukrainian trident on the chest. 

you know its funny people in a snit over Z not wearing a suit in the Whitehouse yet none bat an eye when this is plastered all over the screen:

 

[Beekeeper 91]

IMHO this is the problem of a Real Estate Deal guy being President.  When you're selling real estate, you make an offer.  If they don't take it, not big deal.  You have it on the market for the next guy...Well when you talk to Z about his country, you need to be more careful.  Ukraine already made a deal with Russia and UN and NATO let Russia keep Crimea.  So Russia waited til his troops were rested and restocked before invading again.  So Z doesn't trust him and wants some security thrown in to whatever deal is done.  I don't blame him.  I like the fact he made Trump look like an idiot.  Now the rest of the world will create the ceasefire and the security force that goes with it.  Hopefully the US will not be involved. Time will tell. 

[Twin Tiers Living 558]

The only ‘winner’ here is Putin: Ukraine unites in response to Trump-Zelenskyy spat and resigns itself to new reality

A trap or a misstep? Ukrainian President Volodymyr Zelenskyy sit-down with Donald Trump and JD Vance heads south. AP Photo/ Mystyslav Chernov

 

by Lena Surzhko Harned, Penn State

“A president just disrespected America in the Oval Office. It wasn’t Zelenskyy.”

That was the verdict of the editorial team at the Kyiv Independent, one of Ukraine’s leading media outlets, on a remarkable spat in the Oval Office that played out on Feb. 28, 2025.

The online newspaper European Pravda characterized the “quarrel at the highest level” as a diplomatic failure, but added that it was “not yet a catastrophe.”

Some Ukrainians I have spoken to since the fractious encounter, during which Ukraine’s Volodymyr Zelenskyy was repeatedly hectored by U.S. President Donald Trump and Vice President JD Vance, have indeed characterized it as disastrous for the country. But for others, the incident has been calmly accepted as the new reality in U.S.-Ukraine relations.

There have been some questions directed at Zelenskyy – did he allow himself to be baited into an an argument that could have real consequences? Should he have remained silent? But for the most part, the treatment of Ukraine’s president by Trump and Vance has produced a presumably unintended consequence: It has unified a war-weary Ukrainian people.

As one friend who has been displaced by war from the now occupied city of Nova Kakhovka told me, there has not been this level of mobilization and patriotism in three years.

‘The country needs unity’

This unity is seen in the response across Ukraine’s political divide. Petro Poroshenko, an often outspoken opponent of Zelenskyy and leader of the opposition party European Solidarity, said on March 1 that, to the surprise of many, he will not criticize Zelenskyy’s performance at the White House. “The country does not need criticism, the country needs unity,” he said in the video posted on X.

Anecdotally, even those Ukrainians who did not vote for Zelenskyy have told me that events in the Oval Office made them feel more supportive of Zelenskyy.

However, a sense of realism is sinking in over the shifting stance of the U.S. administration. Trump’s stated trust in Vladimir Putin and his conciliatory comments over Russian aggression – including a refusal to acknowledge Russian war crimes – have, for many Ukrainians, set low expectations that the White House can help achieve a quick and lasting peace. Yet, as Inna Sovsun of the opposition party Holos noted, “It was difficult to watch a president who’s been a victim of Russian aggression being attacked by the leader of the free world.”

Setting the record straight

The Feb. 28 meeting between the U.S. and Ukrainian leaders followed weeks of increasingly harsh Trump rhetoric toward Zelenskyy. Since being inaugurated on Jan. 20, Trump has called the Ukrainian leader a “dictator without elections,” claiming – incorrectly – that Zelenksyy had 4% approval ratings. He also indicted that the invasion by Russian troops in February 2022 was Ukraine’s fault.

Such comments had already made Ukrainians rally around Zelenskyy, who has a healthy 63% approval rating, according to the latest polls.

The ugly scenes in the Oval Office could see a further rallying around Zelenskyy, especially if he can successfully characterize his role in the dispute as that of defender of his people. Doing so would tap into growing popular resentment over the new U.S. administration’s apparent unwillingness to acknowledge Russian war crimes.

Large U.S. and Ukrainian flags hang on the Kyiv River Port building on March 2, 2025 in Kyiv, Ukraine. Photo by Pierre Crom/Getty Images

In the days leading up to the Zelenskyy-Trump meeting, the U.S. voted with Russia against a United Nations resolution condemning Russian aggression and opposed the wording of a draft G7 statement marking the third anniversary of the war, which depicted Russia as the aggressor.

Letting Putin off the hook

The angry exchanges in the Oval Office seemed to have been sparked by Zelenskyy’s objection to Trump’s assertion that Russian President Vladimir Putin is a man of his word.

That refusal to call out Putin – who faces an arrest warrant from the International Criminal Court – angers Ukrainians who have suffered Russian aggression for three years. To hammer that point home, Zekenskyy showed Trump and others in the Oval Office photos of Ukrainian prisoners of war who return from Russian captivity tortured and abused.

As Ukrainian human rights lawyer and Nobel Prize winner Oleksandra Matviichuk noted in a Feb. 17 speech, 65% of Ukrainians polled early in the conflict said their main disappointment in ending the war would be “impunity for Russian crimes.” Three years of conflict will have only hardened that sentiment – yet the U.S., under Trump’s leadership, looks increasingly willing to let Putin off the hook.

Defender of the nation – and truth

A large section of Ukrainian media – both traditionally pro- and anti-Zelenskyy alike – have since Feb. 28 portrayed the president in the role of a defender of both his nation and the truth.

He was, this framing has it, forced into the difficult position of having to set the record straight and challenge untrue statements in real time, and in front of the seemingly antagonistic leader of the world’s largest economy, whose support has been crucial in Ukraine’s attempt to repel the invading Russian army.

To some, keeping silent would have been tantamount to capitulation, but others have questioned Zelenskyy’s approach.

While still maintaining that Zelenskyy’s key message was correct, some Ukrainians have suggested that his emotional tone in the Oval Office was not constructive.

Opposition lawmaker Oleskiy Goncharenko suggested in an interview on CNN that Zelenskyy should have been more “diplomatic” and more “calm” given that the stakes were so high.

Meanwhile, there were also those who questioned the decision to hold such an important conversation in front of the press, especially without the use of professional translators who potentially could have tamped down the rhetoric and slowed the pace of the exchange. Thus, as Tymofiy Mylovanov, the adviser to the office of the president and head of the Kyiv School of Economics put it, some things could “have been lost in translation.”

‘Zelensky is our democratic leader’

So where does the Oval Office dispute leave both Zelenskyy and U.S.-Ukrainian relations?

In the aftermath of the dispute, Republican Sen. Lindsey Graham – who has been a staunch supporter of Ukraine – suggested that Zelenskyy should resign, the implications being that his relationship with Trump was so broken that his presence is now counterproductive for Ukraine’s priorities.

It is a line that hasn’t gone down well in Ukraine. Kira Rudyk, the leader of opposition party Holos, retorted that it was up to the Ukrainian people alone to decide on their leadership and future.

Moreover, to many Ukrainians the barrier to harmonious Ukraine-U.S. relations is not Zelenskyy, but Trump.

Mustafa Nayyem, who served in Zelesnkyy’s government, summed up the view of many Ukrainians by claiming in a social media post that the Trump administration “does not just dislike Ukraine. They despise us.” The “contempt is deeper than indifference, and more dangerous than outright hostility,” he added in the Feb. 28 post.

Intentional provocation

Serhii Sternenko, a Ukrainian activist lawyer and blogger, described the Oval Office spat as an intentional provocation on behalf of Trump to discredit Ukraine as an unreliable partner in the peace negotiations.

Sternenko is not alone in his assessment. Journalist and blogger Vitaly Portnikov argued that the spat was the result of Trump’s unrealistic promise of ending the war quickly being confronted with the reality that perhaps Russia does not want to make any concessions. The thinking here is Putin has shown no indication that he will bend on his war goals, so for Trump, framing Zelenskyy as “not ready for peace” allows the U.S. president to walk away from his campaign promise without accepting defeat.

Among friends: Zelenskyy with Britain’s Prime Minister Keir Starmer and France’s President Emmanuel Macron on March 2, 2025. Justin Tallis - WPA Pool/Getty Images

A new reality

Beyond the headlines and initial reactions from Ukrainian politicians, journalists and civilians, there is also another sentiment that is emerging: resignation to the new reality.

Most Ukrainians want an end to war, but in a way that preserves their sovereignty and guarantees future security. Until recently, that was shared by the occupants of the White House. It is becoming increasingly clear to many Ukrainians that, in regards the war in Ukraine, the U.S. will play a different role under Trump – meaning Ukraine will increasingly look to European leaders as primary partners.

Perhaps Goncharenko, the opposition member of Ukraine’s Parliament, best summed up the consequences of the Oval Office spat: “It was not Ukraine, it was not the United States who won … it was Putin.”

 

Lena Surzhko Harned is Associate Teaching Professor of Political Science at Penn State

This article is republished from The Conversation under a Creative Commons license. Read the original article.

[Chris 3,628]

It’s just easier to post a pic of the headlines sometimes. 🤦‍♂️ 

[Adam 589]

1 hour ago, Chris said:

It’s just easier to post a pic of the headlines sometimes. 🤦‍♂️ 

so the cyber security thing, Trump seems to be parroting many talking points ( some verbatim) that putin has spouted, plus trump is not denying that meeting was a set up, and it was learned today that there was a Russian State-media person IN THE OVAL OFFICE during this confrontation, and now hes pausing assistance....i cannot help but think trump is either SEVERELY enamored with putin, or perhaps this is a russification of our Executive branch?

[Chris 3,628]

This is what happens when you let a weak person into a position of power. 

[Adam 589]

On 3/3/2025 at 10:10 PM, Adam said:

so the cyber security thing, Trump seems to be parroting many talking points ( some verbatim) that putin has spouted, plus trump is not denying that meeting was a set up, and it was learned today that there was a Russian State-media person IN THE OVAL OFFICE during this confrontation, and now hes pausing assistance....i cannot help but think trump is either SEVERELY enamored with putin, or perhaps this is a russification of our Executive branch?

and now add forbidding UK to share American intelligence with Ukraine and talk of easing sanctions on russia....fucker has got to go folks

[Beekeeper 91]

Good luck!  We couldn't even impeach him when he was in office before. IMHO all we can hope for is that democrats get a majority in both the house and Senate in 2026.  Until then, he has too many "believers".  

[Ann 510]

2 hours ago, Beekeeper said:

IMHO all we can hope for is that democrats get a majority in both the house and Senate in 2026

Based on what I’ve seen of the behavior of the Democrats in the House and Senate I would not vote for a Democrate in 2026.  You can loathe the individual holding the office but I have always believed that the Office of the President deserves respect and everyone should stand when whoever holds that office enters the room.   You don’t have to like the person or agree with what’s being said.  Stay silent, don’t applaud and your silence will speak volumes.  
Leaving in protest while the individual holding that Office is speaking, holding up your little signs, disrupting the moment by shouting and shaking your fist, not acknowledging the ordinary Americans mentioned and their struggles and achievements, well, in my humble opinion, that is immature, petty, and the American people deserve better from their Representatives be they Democrats or Republican. 
The Democrats did not listen to the American people during this last election and that’s on them.  From what I’ve seen, they  are still not listening and it will be to their detriment come the 2026 midterms.  Listen and learn, you might finally understand who the people you represent are.

[Adam 589]

9 hours ago, Beekeeper said:

IMHO all we can hope for is that democrats get a majority in both the house and Senate in 2026.

i would argue that NEITHER party has made good to the People, despite both having ample opportunities at majority

7 hours ago, Ann said:

Based on what I’ve seen of the behavior of the Democrats in the House and Senate I would not vote for a Democrate in 2026.  You can loathe the individual holding the office but I have always believed that the Office of the President deserves respect and everyone should stand when whoever holds that office enters the room.   You don’t have to like the person or agree with what’s being said.  Stay silent, don’t applaud and your silence will speak volumes.  
Leaving in protest while the individual holding that Office is speaking, holding up your little signs, disrupting the moment by shouting and shaking your fist, not acknowledging the ordinary Americans mentioned and their struggles and achievements, well, in my humble opinion, that is immature, petty, and the American people deserve better from their Representatives be they Democrats or Republican. 
The Democrats did not listen to the American people during this last election and that’s on them.  From what I’ve seen, they  are still not listening and it will be to their detriment come the 2026 midterms.  Listen and learn, you might finally understand who the people you represent are.

I guess its difficult to follow that sound advice, particularly when the individual currently holding the office cannot