Russia-Ukraine War Thread

[TTL News 308]

Quote

 

KYIV, Ukraine (AP) — Russia launched a wide-ranging attack on Ukraineon Thursday, hitting cities and bases with airstrikes or shelling, as civilians piled into trains and cars to flee. Ukraine’s government said Russian tanks and troops rolled across the border in a “full-scale war” that could rewrite the geopolitical order and whose fallout already reverberated around the world.

In unleashing Moscow’s most aggressive action since the Soviet invasion of Afghanistan, President Vladimir Putin deflected global condemnation and cascading new sanctions — and chillingly referred to his country’s nuclear arsenal. He threatened any foreign country attempting to interfere with “consequences you have never seen.”

Sirens rang out in Ukraine’s capital, large explosions were heard there and in other cities, and people massed in train stations and took to roads, as the government said the former Soviet republic was seeing a long-anticipated invasion from the east, north and south. It reported more than 40 soldiers had been killed and dozens wounded so far. 

The chief of the NATO alliance said the “brutal act of war” shattered peace in Europe, joining a chorus of world leaders who decried the attack, which could cause massive casualties, topple Ukraine’s democratically elected government and upend the post-Cold War security order. The conflict was already shaking global financial markets: Stocks plunged and oil prices soared amid concerns that heating bills and food prices would skyrocket.

 

See the rest here.

[MsKreed 1,175]

 

[Chris 2,158]

[Chris 2,158]

You have to admire the balls:

The ship reportedly opened fire, killing all Ukrainian forces. God bless them.

[Hal 341]

‘Bout says it all !! 
 

[MsKreed 1,175]

Sadly, I feel like the message being relayed is Russia is welcome to exterminate anyone they want in Ukraine, as long as they stop there and don't invade any NATO member states like Poland or Romania. 

I agree that the US should not intercept with military actions in a conflict between Russia & Ukraine. 

I understand (although I don't agree with being the "world police" or "global military" role), that we are treaty-bound to protect NATO member states with troops if they are attacked.  

I don't get the idea of not using all available sanctions now. Even if we aren't going to pretend we care about Ukrainian lives.....how about preventing the need to put our soldiers under fire. Why wait until Putin is standing at NATO borders, where we "will" be in a military conflict?

 

[Hal 341]

From experience I would add my $.02 on NATO . 
While stationed at a so called NATO Base / Air Station in Iceland there was no NATO military presence … none . There were however plenty of Russian transport planes under heavy guard and fully armed coming and going at all hours and Our Forces were not armed , nothing nada because it was a NATO base and under NATO Command … so where was NATO you say , sure as hell not in Iceland ! 
Another example was when I first arrived there the volcano MTHeimey ( sp ) was in full eruption mode and we were loaded on fishing boats to evacuate the residents there . That was billed later as a NATO backed Rescue Operation and again strangly enough 🤔 not one NATO member was out dodging the flaming lava rocks ! We always wondered why , Iceland at that period of time , was considered a strategic area to NATO where were all the other Treaty bound Countries? And by the way there were many other similar times when things were popping there as the Youth Party and their Russian affiliates were trying to rid the island of our presence as they had done with the UK years earlier . NATO is a straight up Joke … always with the chest thumping and always “ backing “ American Forces from Way back of course ! 
Obviously all of Europe has forgotten their not so recent but recent nonetheless history ,  Germany , France , all of Europe need to get their heads out of their collective asses or … well we here all know our World History enough to see it happening again . 
The bottom line is this , yes we are bound by Treaty to help protect but not be the sole protector of the other signatories of the NATO Treaty but that is what has become the accepted and expected practice !   
Just one more opinion, Americans were told to get out of the Ukraine many times over the last two weeks , now , if you did not take heed the blame is on you and your stupidity now jump in , pick up a gun and protect your own ass ! Don’t expect American Military to waste lives of intelligent highly trained young Men and Women to rescue you ! That card has been overplayed in the past where others were warned / told to leave a possible conflicted area and didn’t for whatever reason and the result being a family somewhere back here gets a knock on the door and a “ Sorry to have to tell you your Son or Daughter was killed in a rescue operation “ while another family gets their son or daughter back …alive !  

[MsKreed 1,175]

30 minutes ago, Hal said:

The bottom line is this , yes we are bound by Treaty to help protect but not be the sole protector of the other signatories of the NATO Treaty but that is what has become the accepted and expected practice !   

Exactly.....We agree on that – 1000%

As I already said

1 hour ago, MsKreed said:

(although I don't agree with being the "world police" or "global military" role)

However, in spite of my views on whether we “should” be responsible for providing troops, we’ve already stationed some 12,000 troops in Poland, Romania and Germany.....standing ready to take fire if (when?) Putin takes aggression against those nations.

Given that we “are” taking on that obligation....we should be doing everything possible to prevent the aggression that will put our soldiers in that danger. Now.

Not, as POTUS suggests, “in another month or so” after Putin’s forces have succeeded in making it to those NATO borders.

Quote

    Q    You said, in recent weeks, that big nations cannot bluff when it comes to something like this.  You recently said that the idea of personally sanctioning President Putin was on the table.  Is that a step that you’re prepared to take?  And if not —

     THE PRESIDENT:  It’s not a bluff; it’s on the table.

     Q    Sanctioning President Putin?

     THE PRESIDENT:  Yes.

     Q    Why not sanction him today, sir?  Why not sanction him today, sir?

Q    Mr. President —

Q    Mr. President, if I can, you detailed some severe and swift new sanctions today and said the impact it will have over time, but given the full-scale invasion, given that you’re not pursuing disconnecting Russia from what’s called “SWIFT” — the international banking system — or other sanctions at your disposal, respectfully, sir, what more are you waiting for?

THE PRESIDENT:  Specifically, the sanctions we’ve imposed exceed SWIFT.  The sanctions we imposed exceed anything that’s ever been done.  The sanctions we imposed have generated two thirds of the world joining us.  They are profound sanctions.  Let’s have a conversation in another month or so to see if they’re working.

 

Edited February 25, 2022 by MsKreed

[MsKreed 1,175]

Also....THIS right here

Quote

 

Russian President Vladimir Putin on Friday called on the Ukrainian military to “seize power” in Kiev and oust President Volodymyr Zhelensky and his entourage, whom he described as “neo-Nazis and drug addicts.”

“Take power in your hands. I think it will be easier to negotiate between you and me.”Putin said in an interview with the Ukrainian military on Russian television.

 

It's admirable to see reports of the Ukrainian President and multiple members of Parliament in the streets, taking up arms alongside their military. This is likely why the Ukrainian army hasn't been inclined to take Putin up on the suggestion of a coup. 

I really think every political official in every country ought to be required to "put their money where their mouth is" like this. 

[Chris 2,158]

46 minutes ago, MsKreed said:

It's admirable to see reports of the Ukrainian President and multiple members of Parliament in the streets, taking up arms alongside their military.

The citizens as well. There was a guy on TV the other night who'd just been handed an AK-47. When asked if he even knew how to use it, he admitted he didn't know well, but was going to go find a "quiet place" and work it out. 

 

4 hours ago, MsKreed said:

I don't get the idea of not using all available sanctions now

Agreed. Make it hurt immediately, and knock it off with, "Oh you want another?"

[Ann 263]

5 hours ago, Hal said:

From experience I would add my $.02 on NATO . 
While stationed at a so called NATO Base / Air Station in Iceland there was no NATO military presence … none . There were however plenty of Russian transport planes under heavy guard and fully armed coming and going at all hours and Our Forces were not armed , nothing nada because it was a NATO base and under NATO Command … so where was NATO you say , sure as hell not in Iceland 

I remember the first time you took me on Base and I saw the Russian plane and soldiers.  I called out a “hello” in the language of my paternal grandparents and waved at them.  One soldier waved and answered back.  You hustled me along, I didn’t realize I shouldn’t have done that lol.

[Hal 341]

Yeah , sorry I repeated your statement MsKreed i just got on a rant and it rolled on out . ✌️

[Hal 341]

2 minutes ago, Ann said:

I remember the first time you took me on Base and I saw the Russian plane and soldiers.  I called out a “hello” in the language of my paternal grandparents and waved at them.  One soldier waved and answered back.  You hustled me along, I didn’t realize I shouldn’t have done that lol.

LOL! I had to sit through a whole day of “ do’s and don’ts “ when I arrived and 5 minutes off the plane you almost get us both in trouble 🤦‍♂️. 

[Adam 373]

cannot help but wonder though, why is it NATO/UN was all over it when Iraq invaded Kuwait( non-NATO member) but NOW their hands are tied?

not one to lightly suggest American blood, but what is going on over there is just plain wrong, bullies only stop when you bloody them up a bit

and to see images of residential areas being targeted and the blatant lies from putin regarding it, is just infuriating

 

Edited February 26, 2022 by Adam
omitted UN

[MsKreed 1,175]

31 minutes ago, Adam said:

cannot help but wonder though, why is it NATO was all over it when Iraq invaded Kuwait( non-NATO member) but NOW their hands are tied?

I find it very complicated to grasp, and not sure I’m clear on what previous actions have been NATO vs UN vs “American/UK allied forces” choosing to work on their own accord.

It surprised me to hear a recent report that since it’s beginning after WWII, NATO (North Atlantic Treaty) has only been called up to defend one of their member nations “once” ....ever.  The member nation that was attacked was the US on September 11, 2001.

The NATO website lists “operations” that are primarily humanitarian (coordinating refugee efforts, etc) and “training” (i.e.: supplying weapons, which I think they’ve done to some extent in Ukraine).....and “intercepting” missiles that violated airspace.  

So, maybe other “police actions” and “peacekeeping” fell under UN or “allied forces”?  Whichever “forces” have assisted in Kuwait, Kosovo, Turkey, etc in the past..... I can’t think of any that were actual direct combat against a nuclear power. 

As far as Ukraine....IMHO, the excuse of “fearing inflationary economic repercussions” for not enacting crushing sanctions sooner is BS.  This is a whole lot more worthy of  inflation and economic repercussions than what we’ve been paying for the last two years....sending stimmy checks to dead people, buying billions in vaccines from Big Pharma, and throwing in “green” hardships  

[Chris 2,158]

I believe responding to the Iraqi invasion of Kuwait was a UN function.

[Chris 2,158]

I’m seeing articles online about elderly men showing up to fight so their grandchildren don’t have to. Expats returning home to fight. Or the Ukrainian soldier reported to have blown himself up on a bridge to ward off a Russian advance…

The bravery and heroism is nothing but inspiring and God bless them all. It’s very hard to keep a “no American troops” stance. Purely an emotional response, I know, but part of me thinks the entire world responding as we did back in Kuwait in the 90’s might be the deterrent needed.

Of course it could also set off a true World War III.

[Hal 341]

The video of the tank swerving to run the car over … an act of pure cowardice! This and all the others are being made into martyrs by the Russians . One thing any aggressor doesn’t want or needs is martyrs ! Putin is already losing the support of even his own people . Too bad he is batshit crazy and doesn’t care what his people think ! 

[Kevin 334]

36 minutes ago, Chris said:

 but part of me thinks the entire world responding as we did back in Kuwait in the 90’s might be the deterrent needed.

Of course it could also set off a true World War III.

I saw a video earlier that was saying while most countries have been helping Ukraine stockpile weapons and medical supplies, they are on their own. 

The problem is when not if Putin takes back Ukraine most experts believe we won't stop there because he has said publicly the wants to built Russia into the powerhouse it was before. 

The moment he steps into one of NATO countries that surround Ukraine then it becomes WW3. Which is kinda ironic because for years we heard Trump was gonna start WW3 with they way he handled foreign affairs. 

[Kevin 334]

Ukrainian lady asks a Russian soldier to put seeds in his pocket so flowers will grow after he is killed. That is gangsta. 

[MsKreed 1,175]

11 hours ago, Chris said:

I’m seeing articles online about elderly men showing up to fight so their grandchildren don’t have to. Expats returning home to fight. Or the Ukrainian soldier reported to have blown himself up on a bridge to ward off a Russian advance…

The bravery and heroism is nothing but inspiring and God bless them all. It’s very hard to keep a “no American troops” stance. Purely an emotional response, I know, but part of me thinks the entire world responding as we did back in Kuwait in the 90’s might be the deterrent needed.

Of course it could also set off a true World War III.

Could set that off? 

China, also being a nuclear power, isn't likely going to take a stand against Putin....and very well may exploit the distraction and pick up his playbook. First seizing Taiwan  (with a "disputed" status) then, if successful, keep rolling into undisputed sovereign states. 

[Chris 2,158]

6 minutes ago, MsKreed said:

Could set that off? 

Just trying to avoid hyperbole. 🙂

[MsKreed 1,175]

https://www.reuters.com/world/russia-vetoes-un-security-action-ukraine-china-abstains-2022-02-25/

 

Quote

UNITED NATIONS, Feb 25 (Reuters) - Russia vetoed a draft U.N. Security Council resolution on Friday that would have deplored Moscow's invasion of Ukraine, while China abstained from the vote - a move Western countries view as a win for showing Russia's international isolation.

 

[MsKreed 1,175]

[Kevin 334]

The ghost of Kiev is making headlines everywhere. If reports are true he or she (heard reports of both) shot down 6 Russian planes in 1 day.