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Russia-Ukraine War Thread

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1 hour ago, Hal said:

Putin is a bully and Zelinsky is a crook and putting Biden smack dab in the middle of those two … nothing good can come out of this ! 

Completely agree with this

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Now the crook is addressing Congress.  I hate these things.  The ass patting and standing ovations, up down, up down.  Worse than church.

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What’s being done to the Ukrainian people is wrong, plain and simple.

So I’m fine with sending things like our Patriot system - it’s not like we’re using them. And if it helps save innocent lives, great.

I just don’t think throwing billions upon billions of dollars is the solution. 

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2 hours ago, Hal said:

Do we call this a proxy war , future protracted action or protracted proxy war ? In a fantasy World wouldn’t it be great to see conflicts like this settled by the two leaders on a battlefield, alone just them and as Rip on Yellowstone says “ trade em till one stays down “ ! 
Putin is a bully and Zelinsky is a crook and putting Biden smack dab in the middle of those two … nothing good can come out of this ! 

What exactly is the final goal of a proxy war? Regardless of whether Russia annexes Ukraine "now", won't they still be a super power with nukes and Putin in charge?

Won't he still be a threat later, like he is now (years after taking Crimea)? 

I certainly hope we don't think we're going to replace him.  We have a pretty shitty track record for "nation building", and it's not a popular thing among American voters.....even in  small powerless countries. 

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I refuse to watch ! The crook is making a plea for more and more is not what he needs from us . He wants more “ far reaching weapons “ from our own quickly depleting stockpiles … NO Damn it ! 
And backing him , literally, is a laughing hyena , word salad spewing idiot and a old lush that takes takes eye brow makeup lessons from Hokul the Jokul … is my disdain showing again ?! 
 

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15 minutes ago, Hal said:

takes eye brow makeup lessons from Hokul the Jokul

Minor, correction:

I think Hochul is the copycat on that; Nancy was sporting those brows first. 😉

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27 minutes ago, MsKreed said:

What exactly is the final goal of a proxy war? Regardless of whether Russia annexes Ukraine "now", won't they still be a super power with nukes and Putin in charge?

Won't he still be a threat later, like he is now (years after taking Crimea)? 

I certainly hope we don't think we're going to replace him.  We have a pretty shitty track record for "nation building", and it's not a popular thing among American voters.....even in  small powerless countries. 

I guess thats what I'm asking . What do we call this thing we are doing ? We aren’t selling arms and heavy weapons to Ukraine we are giving it to them . We aren’t helping Ukrainians with Humanitarian aid . Just the opposite we are enabling Zelinsky to taunt Putin who in turn takes out his ire on the civilian targets making it more a war of terrorization , and to Chris’ point yes the Patriot missiles are a defensive weapon and do , to a certain degree, help the civilian population but further enrages Putin . So help me understand what is our end game here maybe i am using the wrong verbiage by using Proxy war ? 

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5 minutes ago, MsKreed said:

Minor, correction:

I think Hochul is the copycat on that; Nancy was sporting those brows first. 😉

😂 I stand corrected! 

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So the budget included several million or more for transgender studies in Pakistan.  Several hundred million for border protection in Syria, Jordan I believe and someplace else while nothing to protect and close our southern border.  3 billion I believe was allocated for the border but not to secure it.  No, it’s for the comfort and care of the illegals crossing our border.   Our southern border remains wide open.  Those border cities look like third world countries.  

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I've been (mostly) listening to Admiral Kirby's press conference. 

Maybe someone paying closer attention caught better details....my take aways and questions so far:

1) Now we're sending enough tanks for a "battalion" (31), and it sounds like someone else (Germany?) is sending twice that.  Kirby says it will take a couple of months for ours to be delivered (I didn't catch any timeline for the other nation's tank delivery). Not happy that we continue to up the stakes, but glad others are throwing in support along with us.  The couple months timeline does make me feel like they not only perceive an escalation - but don't expect it to be short term if we aren't addressing for a few more months. 

2) He sort of hedged answering whether he expects our "discussions" with China to curb their Russian support will be heeded.  An Asian reporter had a good point....in that China not only has a LOT of equipment to share with Putin, but is also potentially watching US inventory and could calculate when a critical portion of US military resources become tied up in Ukraine and leave them more opportunity to time a Taiwan offensive.

3) Thought I heard that Zelinsky thanks us for the tanks, and asked if we can add fighter jets.  Seriously? So not even pretending we're ever expected to slow our roll?  I know, "whatever it takes", right? We aren't using the patriots, we aren't using the tanks, I'm sure we aren't using the jets either. But, to the above #2 point.....are we manufacturing more? Do we have a plan to get the stuff back at some point, and under what circumstances? Or is like those hedge trimmer you lent the neighbor and you know you'll never see it again? If an NATO/ally gets struck, and the US ever needs to commit troops.....they will need some of that stuff.

Edited by MsKreed
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Just a thought . 
Instead of sending billions in equipment every six months or so out of our already depleted military stocks in an Easterly direction so that a crooked so called leader can bring down more wrath on his own people why not do this . 
Send our military to our Southern border along with our tanks , artillery and yes even more importantly our jets to protect our own people from the wrath of the cartels , gangs and drugs that are killing thousands here in OUR COUNTRY 
Look , the cartels are here , now in full force no thanks to our own piss poor so called leadership , with thousands more just dancing across the border each day . 
As I see it we are creating a vacuum effect … by blowing all our resources to the East out of This Country the Government is creating that vacuum effect , sucking in from the South more drugs , corruption and wasting resources that should be going to more deserving individuals. Anyone feeling triggered yet by my overuse of the word Our , if so just take a good look at what’s happening here in the good old USA , no matter what News feed you prefer . Look at the way these illegal Immigrants are using the aide that is Given them , the food they refuse to eat , the destruction of housing provided … but the beer is acceptable it would seem . 
There is Our invasion the cartels are our Putin , Biden is our Zelinsky and the invading troops are easy enough to spot amongst the influx of Armies of illegal immigrants ! 
I don’t think i have gone too far off topic here , no matter , as I said these are my thoughts I have drawn from different Media outlets . We all come to our own conclusions from Informational Sources we use without being force fed by any of them , I believe we are All more intelligent than that . 
Whew all that said I still do not support any further military aide to the Ukraine ! 

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so doing some quick reading before bed i found the following:

a tank battalion consist of 56 tanks( 4 tank companies consisting of 14 tanks each crewed by 4 soldiers) approximately 400 to 100 soldiers total. as for Zelinsky asking for planes; i fugure why not, ask for missiles get drones, ask for jets, get more tanks. this is literally a David v Goliath situation, just because he asks, doesnt mean we HAVE to provide.

as to military readiness, im surprised such info is actually posted but i found the following synopsis: 

"

In the aggregate, the United States’ military posture is rated “weak.” The 2023 Index concludes that the current U.S. military force is at significant risk of not being able to meet the demands of a single major regional conflict while also attending to various presence and engagement activities. It most likely would not be able to do more and is certainly ill-equipped to handle two nearly simultaneous MRCs—a situation that is made more difficult by the generally weak condition of key military allies. The downgrading of the Air Force from “weak” to “very weak,” downgrading of the Navy from “marginal” to “weak,” and a Space Force score of “weak” have led to the first downgrade of the overall score since the inception of the Index.

In general, the military services have continued to prioritize readiness and have seen improvement over the past few years, but modernization programs continue to suffer as the failure of resources to keep pace with inflation leads to cancelations, truncation, or delay. The services have normalized the reduction in size and number of military units, and the forces remain well below the level they need to meet the two-MRC benchmark.

Mounting U.S. federal debt and creeping inflation will pressure defense accounts further at a time when competitor countries like China and Russia are redoubling their efforts to expand and improve their military forces. If it continues on this trajectory, the U.S. risks falling very short in its ability to secure its core national interests." 

https://www.heritage.org/military/an-assessment-of-us-military-power

now, this is concerning to read particularly since that historically, the US has outspent many Nations in this area, so it does beg the question What the hell happened to the money?

secondly, perhaps, as the reports seems to indicate, much of the equipment is "outdated", maybe shipping over some stockpiles and equipment is a way to clear the way for upgraded material?

as to getting the stuff back; i assume its much like all the tonnage that was left in afghanistan and Iraq before that....unlikely

https://www.nationaldefensemagazine.org/articles/2022/9/30/americanize-the-defense-industry-supply-chain

https://www.defense.gov/News/News-Stories/Article/Article/2937898/dod-report-consolidation-of-defense-industrial-base-poses-risks-to-national-sec/#:~:text=Over the last 30 years,satellites have all declined dramatically.

the above links are concerning as they seemingly indicate that manufacturing capacity has been dramatically affected by poor decision making or just outright incompetence on the part of our illustrious government. if the Fed remains intent on this path, then it is WAY past time for countries in the European region to start picking up the slack, perhaps its time to tell the UN to kick sand and take up real estate somewhere else

the sad thing is, Principle dictates we cannot stand by while Russia continues its aggression and, frankly, criminal actions no one reading this would not stand idly by while a weaker person was being repeatedly beaten by a bigger person for no reason other than they could, The United States cannot either....and shame upon the UN and NATO for their inaction

 

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41 minutes ago, Adam said:

a tank battalion consist of 56 tanks( 4 tank companies consisting of 14 tanks each crewed by 4 soldiers) approximately

Kirby did clarify that Ukraine's military structure has smaller (2 company) battalions than ours. 

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The thing with the southern border is nothing new. How many presidents have owned that particular problem? There's a reason they don't take it seriously, any of them, from Biden on back.

As for Ukraine? F--k it. Let's relive the good old days of the early 90's and have the entire world gather on their eastern border.  

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26 minutes ago, Chris said:

The thing with the southern border is nothing new. How many presidents have owned that particular problem? There's a reason they don't take it seriously, any of them, from Biden on back.

The premise that "it's always been an issue" seems a little understated (trivialized?) when the issue has an alarming and significant rate that's out of alignment from historical trends. 

Like crime and inflation, border crossings and illegal/undocumented entry is a phenomenon that has been around forever.  Also like crime and inflation, the border issue is currently at a high/peak that is not consistent with historical rates.

Most people don’t look at inflation or crime at rates not seen since the 80s and 90s and chalk it up to "it's always been an issue".....so it doesn't seem like the southern border's spike should be given a pass either.

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1 hour ago, MsKreed said:

Most people don’t look at inflation or crime at rates not seen since the 80s and 90s and chalk it up to "it's always been an issue".....so it doesn't seem like the southern border's spike should be given a pass either.

I'm not giving it a pass, but I also don't think we can give sole blame either. 

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Like inflation and crime.....I’m more interested in responsibility and solutions than “blame”.  

Our government isn’t necessarily to blame for the “sitch” over in Ukraine, but sure seems eager to throw unlimited resources at it. (Under the presumption that it will indirectly provide security and stability in an abstract "global" sense). 

 

Assigning blame isn't a requisite for expecting those who have the obligation/responsibility (and the authority) to implement policies and prioritize resources that directly provide security and stability for the people they represent. Whether that's crime, economic crisis or border crisis that are running out of control.

Edited by MsKreed

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ISTANBUL, Jan 25 (Reuters) - A Turkish-owned general cargo ship was struck by a missile in the port of the southern Ukrainian city of Kherson, sparking a fire, according to video footage from the scene and shipping sources.

The missile hit the bridge of the vessel named Tuzla on Tuesday, maritime security company Ambrey said, causing the fire. Video footage showed flames filling the command room of the ship.

Reuters was able to confirm the location from the ships and buildings seen in the video, which matched file and satellite imagery of the area. Reuters was not able to independently confirm the date the videos were filmed.

 

Source

Poland and now Turkey. Maybe NATO will end up dragged into this somehow this year.

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KYIV, Ukraine (AP) — President Joe Biden paid an unannounced visit to Ukraine on Monday to meet with President Volodymyr Zelenskyy in a defiant display of Western solidarity with a country still fighting what he called “a brutal and unjust war” days before the one-year anniversary of Russia’s invasion.

“One year later, Kyiv stands,” Biden declared after meeting Zelenskyy at Mariinsky Palace. Jamming his finger for emphasis on his podium, against a backdrop of three flags from each country, he continued: “And Ukraine stands. Democracy stands. The Americans stand with you, and the world stands with you.”

Biden spent more than five hours in the Ukrainian capital, consulting with Zelenskyy on next steps, honoring the country’s fallen soldiers and seeing U.S. embassy staff in the besieged country.

The visit comes at a crucial moment: Biden is trying to keep allies unified in their support for Ukraine as the war is expected to intensify with spring offensives. Zelenskyy is pressing allies to speed up delivery of promised weapon systems and calling on the West to provide fighter jets — something that Biden has declined to do.

The U.S. president got a taste of the terror that Ukrainians have lived with for close to a year when air raids sirens howled just as he and Zelenskyy wrapped up a visit to the gold-domed St. Michael’s Cathedral.

 

Source

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Great … just great , our Front door is wide open , the Back door is slowly opening and our Roof is leaking ,  Middle America has been poisoned , Veterans living on the streets and our own Women and Children shot and killed almost daily ! Yeah Great idea lets just keep pumping all we can into Ukraine while it’s Bordering Countries, the ones who stand to lose the most sit back and do nothing ! 

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KYIV, Ukraine (AP) — Ukraine’s leader pledged to push for victory in 2023 as he and other Ukrainians on Friday marked the somber anniversary of the Russian invasion that upended their lives and Europe’s security. 

It was Ukraine’s “longest day,” President Volodymyr Zelenskyy said, but the country’s dogged resistance a year on has proven that “every tomorrow is worth fighting for.”

On a day of commemorations, reflection and tears, the Ukrainian president’s defiant tone captured the national mood of resilience in the face of Europe’s biggest and deadliest wa r since World War II. Zelenskyy, who has himself become a symbol of Ukraine’s refusal to bow to Moscow, said Ukrainians proved themselves to be invincible during “a year of pain, sorrow, faith and unity.”

“We have been standing for exactly one year,” Zelenskyy said. Feb. 24, 2022, he said, was “the longest day of our lives. The hardest day of our modern history. We woke up early and haven’t fallen asleep since.”

 

Read more.

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MOSCOW (AP) — Russian President Vladimir Putin announced plans on Saturday to station tactical nuclear weapons in neighboring Belarus, a warning to the West as it steps up military support for Ukraine.

Putin said the move was triggered by Britain’s decision this past week to provide Ukraine with armor-piercing rounds containing depleted uranium. 

Tactical nuclear weapons are intended for use on the battlefield and have a short range and a low yield compared with much more powerful nuclear warheads fitted to long-range missiles. Russia plans to maintain control over those it sends to Belarus, and construction of storage facilities for them will be completed by July 1, Putin said.

He didn’t say how many nuclear weapons Russia would keep in Belarus. The U.S. government believes Russia has about 2,000 tactical nuclear weapons, which include bombs that can be carried by tactical aircraft, warheads for short-range missiles and artillery rounds.

 

Source

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4 hours ago, Chris said:

What could possibly go wrong?

And with this lets see how the Countries closest to the proposed sites react ?! 

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Ukraine brought the war far from the front line into the heart of Russia again Sunday in drone penetrations that Russian authorities said damaged two office buildings a few miles (kilometers) from the Kremlin and a pig breeding complex on the countries’ border.

The attacks, which Ukraine didn’t acknowledge in keeping with its security policy, reflected a pattern of more frequent and deeper cross-border strikes the Kyiv government has launched since starting a counteroffensive against Russian forces in June. A precursor and the most dramatic of the strikes happenned in May on the Kremlin itself, the seat of power in the capital, Moscow.

Sunday’s was the fourth such strike on the capital region this month and the third this week, showing Moscow’s vulnerability as Russia’s war in Ukraine drags into its 18th month.

 

Source

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