Prop 1, 3 & 4 (and 2 and 5)

[Ars76 69]

So.... I've been seeing a lot of ads against these (1,3,4) ballot proposals.  So I decided to look into them.  I have to say,  I'm not sure I fully understand all that is included in proposition #1....

Anyone really understand this??

https://www.elections.ny.gov/2021BallotProposals.html

[Chris 2,153]

#1 - I'd vote "no" on #1 simply because I can't translate that wall of text. And I'm sure many voters wont even read it

#2 - "Healthful environment" is a term that could be taken a lot of different ways. 

#3 - You can register to vote less than 10 days before an election. How much less?

#4 - You can vote by absentee ballot for whatever reason, or none at all. 

 

 

[Ars76 69]

I must say... the ads are annoying.  I dislike political ads that present opinions as facts - 

[Hal 340]

Geezus , I’m expected to read that “ wall of text “ ?! Okay I perused it and did not find anything worth a yes vote . And on tonights news it was described as same day registration which is worth a solid no vote . 
And your correct , how many people are going to even review #1 then bother with the others ! 

[Kevin 334]

#1 Will allow the majority party to form a committee to redraw district lines.  Currently both parties have to be represented,  the new proposal leaves out the line saying both parties have to represented. 

#3 Will open the door for same day registration 

 

[Ann 263]

22 minutes ago, Kevin said:

#1 Will allow the majority party to form a committee to redraw district lines.  Currently both parties have to be represented,  the new proposal leaves out the line saying both parties have to represented. 

#3 Will open the door for same day registration 

 

I could be wrong but doesn’t #1 also include illegals when redrawing district lines?  It also would count inmates as being at their last residence before incarceration.  Not sure if that’s a good idea because they may not have actually lived in the city/town/village at time of arrest.  

Edited October 29, 2021 by Ann

[Kevin 334]

It does also count illegals and federally they already count inmates in the area they lived before they went to prison. 

[Ann 263]

3 hours ago, Kevin said:

It does also count illegals and federally they already count inmates in the area they lived before they went to prison. 

I think inmates should be counted where incarcerated, it might help Upstate NY.

[MsKreed 1,167]

19 minutes ago, Ann said:

I think inmates should be counted where incarcerated, it might help Upstate NY.

Yeah....the whole amendment looks like its primary goal is to remove any previous (bi-partisan) rules that don't favor downstate and NYC. 

[Chris 2,153]

18 hours ago, MsKreed said:

...remove any previous (bi-partisan) rules that don't favor downstate and NYC. 

Favoring downstate? Imagine that!

[trainman 1]

Vote NO on all proposals 

[Chris 2,153]

44 minutes ago, trainman said:

Vote NO on all proposals 

Someone said it best last night: "If I can understand it, I vote "no".

[MsKreed 1,167]

#1 - Will allow the majority party to form a committee to redraw district lines.  Currently both parties have to be represented, the new proposal leaves out the line saying both parties have to represented. Unless I get some better translation, I agree this is the crux of it, and would oppose because it seems like a clear power grab by the majority party to favor downstate and other metro areas and under-represent the rural and small towns of upstate.

 

#2 - "Healthful environment" is a term that could be taken a lot of different ways. Agreed. I always assume the worst when something is this vague. I can see this being used to tax anyone using non-electric vehicles and fossil fuel home energy into poverty.

 

#3 and #4 – Same day registration and practically unregulated mail-in voting. While I don’t want legitimate voters turned away.....I think both of these allow abuse that would remove assurances that only legitimate votes are counted.

[Chris 2,153]

On 10/30/2021 at 10:37 AM, trainman said:

Vote NO on all proposals 

Welcome to the site Trainman!

Feel free to share your thoughts on any particular points you’re against and/or why. It's always great to hear people's perspective!

[Chris 2,153]

Well it sounds like at least three of the five were expected to be shot down.

That's probably what got a lot of people out to vote this year to begin with. 

[KarenK 382]

3 hours ago, Chris said:

Well it sounds like at least three of the five were expected to be shot down.

That's probably what got a lot of people out to vote this year to begin with. 

I was astounded at how many people had already voted when I went yesterday.  I was #184 at 4:30 and there was a line behind me.  All Erin positions were uncontested so it had to be those propositions.

[Chris 2,153]

From what I’m seeing Proposition 2, (clean air, water “healthy environment”) passed.  

[MsKreed 1,167]

8 minutes ago, Chris said:

From what I’m seeing Proposition 2, (clean air, water “healthy environment”) passed.  

Yes....by a pretty stiff margin that really surprised me. 

When something is that vague....it seems naïve to me for anyone (let alone 60%) to think it won't be applied broadly and arbitrarily to any and all situations that could remotely be associated with "a healthful environment".  It's like a blank check for unlimited regulations, taxes and restrictions.

All tentative results are available at the NYS Board of Elections site: https://nyenr.elections.ny.gov/

Edited November 3, 2021 by MsKreed

[Hal 340]

Only my opinion but I don’t think there are a whole bunch of people who actually look for or pick out key phrases or vagaries . And some may call it paranoia that makes me do just that . But damn , one would think people would be tired of getting screwed by any such “ Propositions “ . And I agree MsKreed , a healthful environment is a very broad brush ! 

[KarenK 382]

That one could potentially fall back and affect Right to Farm laws which cover a great deal of real estate in these parts.  I didn't read far enough to find out whether grandfathering or exemptions existed.  

[MsKreed 1,167]

23 minutes ago, KarenK said:

 I didn't read far enough to find out whether grandfathering or exemptions existed.  

I don't think there is any further reading you can do. 

From the text on the NYS State Board of Elections page, it seems that the entire proposal is literally just adding that single vague sentence to state ‘Bill of Rights':

 

So yes, it does seem like someone could easily say Right To Farm ordinances violate that...or any other capricious idea that could be framed as “unhealthful”  

How broad is the term "environment" anyway? We can probably assume it covers air land and water resources:

Restricting how many miles one may drive a gas powered car?

Regulating and requiring permits to gather rainwater?

Limiting/taxing propane/fuel oil heating?

 

Does "environment" extend to potentially "unhealthful" interactions in public spaces?

Placing unvaccinated people under house arrest?

 

What about protecting New Yorkers from an environment where they're exposed to "unhealthful" dietary selections?

Requiring meat-free school menus?

Prohibiting sugary soda pop served in 32 oz containers?

[KarenK 382]

14 minutes ago, MsKreed said:

 

How broad is the term "environment" anyway? We can probably assume it covers air land and water resources:

Restricting how many miles one may drive a gas powered car?

Regulating and requiring permits to gather rainwater?

Limiting/taxing propane/fuel oil heating?

 

Does "environment" extend to potentially "unhealthful" interactions in public spaces?

Placing unvaccinated people under house arrest?

 

What about protecting New Yorkers from an environment where they're exposed to "unhealthful" dietary selections?

Requiring meat-free school menus?

Prohibiting sugary soda pop served in 32 oz containers?

Jeesh, I didn't even think of most of that stuff. My guess is neither did anyone else including our R lawmakers

[Chris 2,153]

I had a few of those concerns as well, chiefly as they pertain to agricultural matters.

But yeah, a great way to push through all sorts of BS laws in the name of a “healthful environment”.

[MsKreed 1,167]

1 hour ago, Chris said:

I had a few of those concerns as well, chiefly as they pertain to agricultural matters.

Those were the first concerns for me as well -- protecting the environment seemed like the closest connection. 

I'd imagine those things as pretty much a given, but the unspecific language could allow politicians to later turn their sites on using it to dictate the "healthfulness" of more personal proximity situations.

[Hal 340]

Or you could add to that list the matter of guns in the home as being “unhealthful “  to children ! The list could go on and on …