MsKreed

I have seen other patrons of the L make this same comment....and you in particular aren't one to lie about your observation. And yet there are records that many of the neighbors did hear noise often enough to report it to different officials on multiple occasions. Neighbors of the L, on record, publicly giving their names and addresses. Not (as some seem to want us to believe)....the Town fabricating vague anonymous accusations as part of an agenda to drive the L out. Both seem sincere and I have trouble trying to reconcile that. Makes me wonder if the sound carries more in one direction, or if the noise was bad for certain events and not as bad at others? The way some of Bunce and friends piling on WETM deny there were ever any valid complaints, you'd think there was just some orange guy on the Town Board or the news channel saying: "You know,some people say there's a lot noise. The noise is tremendous. Many many people have said to me that it's a noisy place. Very very noisy place"

I stand corrected. I found this list of names from August . I missed it and hadn't heard any names since Margeson had discussed it in June. So with Margerson still being the "spokesperson" in the most recent interview, I guess I figured they are laying low.

This idea really does seem to escape them. The elected Legislature appointed the IDA, and now the IDA appointed a “group of experts” that they have yet to name in public. Perhaps the taxpayer “owners” would feel more at ease if we could have some dialogue and communication with whomever this anonymous group is that is running the Arena and spending our money?

What a forward thinking plan!! Thank goodness we now have this particular group of people on the IDA board that has put together a group that can come up with ideas that no one has thought of before.

I could absolutely visualize an indoor community like that. A few coffee shops and restaurants, Wegman’s and a CVS or Walgreens that residents could walk to year-round. For years, seniors (and other “mall walkers”) have been taking advantage of the climate controlled space.....the idea of living right there and having businesses that fit the demographic could be a perfect environment. But when I look at the “financial conditions” noted in earlier posts, it seems that whatever rent that Arnot Realty is charging now is too high to keep current business tenants, but also total rent revenue isn't enough to cover adequate maintenance. So, between the residential rent and from the businesses that would complete the “indoor community”......the Mall (landlord) would need to pull in more than their current revenue. And not all of the space could be revenue generating. Because in addition to commercial businesses like restaurants, hair salons, grocery, pharmacy, etc.....a truly “self-contained community” should have some “free” (included in the rent) amenities and activities like a community rec center, etc. It does look like some US malls have undertaken this type of conversion in the past few years ( HERE). So Lycoming isn’t unique for the US. My concerns are affordability and long-term viability from a profitability standpoint. Others, modelled after the Dutch Model you spoke of (mentioned HERE) are more institutional senior care (i.e. non-profit facilities). That’s why I’d like to see examples that have been successful....and what that looked like. Can they, keep rent reasonably priced for residents and businesses....while still providing reliable maintenance and offering some entertainment/amenities free of charge? Or will taxpayer subsidies be needed to keep the place affordable?

I remember the “hotel concept” that the IDA was ready to support, but don’t recall one with housing. It does seem like there’s an endless swarm of “developers”....always eager to push whatever [insert current up-and-coming “vision” that will transform communities] idea onto Chambers of Commerce and local funding streams. The imaginative new ideas are great, but it’s prudent to consider how “new” they are. Before Arnot Mall was built, indoor malls had been on the rise across the country for a decade, with thousands showing proven success. Reading the Lycoming story, I don’t see them citing examples where the type of conversion they’re proposing has been built, let alone any that have thrived.

The former Lycoming Mall? Yikes. That shut down fast once the anchor stores started pulling out. Knowing that makes the final decline the Arnot Mall seem more imminent than I might have expected.

I’m not familiar with the “Marketing Agent” who posted that nonsense and not clear on his role in the “team”. It’s unfortunate if his business will lose some revenue because the Church has decided not to work out something to continue the L operations by submitting a plan and appropriate requests to the Town. But he and Adam are the ones who have both chosen not to address the Town or the news stations. Too bad that the entertainment and marketing “professionals” can’t behave like adults. It sad to see them trying to inflame their fanatics to direct their outrage to manufactured “villains”....instead of acknowledging the issues and announcing what their plan is to address the matter. As I noted when this topic first cme up..... The L was up and running for over a year before the C&D order was issued. It's clear that members of the Town Board had to be aware that concerts and events were happening. But the C&D was only issued after multiple neighbors showed up at a Town meeting to register noise complaints.....and then discussion at that meeting "evolved" into debate and public scrutiny of the zoning and religious vs commercial businesses. So honestly, it feels like the Town had tried pretty hard to “look the other way” and not investigate or question the commercial nature of the L operations. And if they’d kept the volume down a bit, the Town may not have been pressured into explaining to residents why they were allowing it.

I'd seen the 11-11:30 pm Sunday (5th) reports, but nothing about the Saturday afternoon. I'm around 10 miles from Merka and while the humans here didn't hear/feel anything on Saturday (4th)....my dog went into her trembling, panting, racing heart behavior that t-storms, nearby fireworks, guns etc cause. I had a hard time even getting her to take her sedative treats. We figured there was possibly gunfire far off that we were tuning and was more faint for us that the pup. If she was feeling low wave from distant explosions reverberating, it would make sense. Further to that point, the Saturday social media post shows curiosity but not enough concern for anyone to call about it until it happened late at night.

So many rural folks being basically desensitized to “recreational” explosives a good point, that hadn’t occurred to me. Makes one wonder if the first explosion that started the investigation could have gone unreported if it had been an earlier time of day.

I know people on Sandbank Road in Erin not far from the gravel pit where the explosives were detonated by officials. The half dozen explosions that took place each represented about 15-20% of the total.....and shook houses to the degree of "rattling dishes" at quite a distance. Had it all gone off at once in that apartment, the damage would have certainly been significant well beyond the (lethal) perimeter that was blocked off from Franklin to Broad streets. I really hope the local media is able to stay on top of the story so we find out the details of his plan/intent, and it doesn't "disappear" from public record with a plea bargain.

I agree, for a lot of people there’s an instinctive compulsion to defend and rationalize things we enjoy. Like the Arena, it seems like fans of The L are dismissing/justifying the factual issues of tax status, zoning and business permits. And some are sticking to their guns that the noise complaints were an excuse that the Town just made up to go after them.

So the rumors, rumors and more rumors were......factual reports?

PepsiCo is responsible. Because Nestle, The Coca-Cola Company, and Kraft Heinz don’t produce and package beverages and snack foods “that mostly come in plastic containers meant to be thrown away or recycled once they are empty. And we have some special concern about the Buffalo River. Because the the PepsiCo litter somehow doesn't turn up in the Hudson and every other river in the state? Seems oddly specific. Thanks for your diligence, Tish. I do find some humour in the thought that we likely have some wackadoodle neighbours in NYS who are so afflicted with “green psychosis” that they will try to rationalise this waste of taxpayer money and cheer this virtue signaling.

I had originally thought that....but the way it was outlined to me is this: $375 was paid out last year. Then $500k was listed as part of the Executive's "ARP Plan"......which was voted on and approved by the Legislature and included in the 2023 Budget. (Bringing the total to $875k, that I assumed was done and paid). However, actually transferring funds for each project in the "ARP Plan" requires its own "final" voting process (first in the Budget Committee and then the full Legislature). So only the first $375k was all that had been fully approved, and paid out to the IDA until now. The Fairgrounds Building project was also listed as part of the Executive's "ARP Plan" in the budget, but will go through the vote process again when the time comes for it to be paid out.

Resolution 23-568 to transfer of the $500k that had been added to the budget in December was unanimously passed by the (10) legislators who voted. Donovan, Pickering and Stermer were absent from the meeting; Chalk and Margeson recused themselves from voting. This brings the total ARP funds paid to IDA for the Arena to $875k. Before the roll call vote, Morse (who has expressed reservations about the IDA on several projects) thanked Mr. Margeson and ‘others’ for answering her many questions and going over the Business Plan during ‘many discussions’. She said she is pleased with what she’s hearing and supports “changing the mindset from hockey to a Community Center and doing more that our community can be involved in; there’s more potential here”. I look forward to the IDA openly and transparently sharing that Business Plan with the public.

Dang, didn’t hear/see anything advertised about that. I'm glad they had a good turnout. Absolutely. Not just in the "event center".....but all through the Mall to encourage window shopping (which leads to actual shopping). And they need to get away from the mindset of trying to generate profits directly from the events. If they return to the concept that the events can be a wash (or even carry some cost to the Mall management), then the traffic will result in their tenants being profitable enough to warrant the premium rents. That is exactly what drew the crowds that made the individual businesses (and The Mall) thrive in the past as seen in THIS Album. If they don’t make some changes, it will continue to bleed tenants and something other than a Mall (and hopefully not just another vacant behemoth) will need to takes its place.

Do you suppose it was to preemptively “defend” against igner’t yankees who'd think it’s misspelled could be inclined to criticise?

Thanks! I will add it to my watch list 🙂

Exactly..... If they want to demand the steadily increasing rents, they'd need to bring back the benefits that they removed over the last several decades that had made that square footage "gold" in the first place. From the time the Arnot Mall was built until somewhere in the mid-late ‘90s, it operated with the basic recipe/formula that made other malls across America thrive (and justifying the higher rent costs to their tenants). Free Events like pageants, art shows, parades, etc drawing consumers into the facility. Non-Competition clauses in their leases that promised tenants that they wouldn’t have to fight over customers for identical goods and services right down the hall.....while providing consumers with a Wide Variety of shops & services. Anchor Stores comprised of large, popular, national retailers with traffic from a consistent customer base. Then we saw some of the “ingredients” in that recipe being skimped on (or completely omitted) in order for the Mall Management to squeeze more profits...... Instead of hosting free events, they began charging vendors to participate (like the Farmer’s Market Chris mentioned). Eventually, they just offered up corridors full time to any fly-by-night junk dealer who wanted a booth. There was also no longer any attempt to protect older tenants from competition. Any new booth or storefront can come along and sell the same stuff as the next guy. And with the rent being too damn high.....a lot of those new tenants don’t invest in any remodeling or refacing of the old business. They just throw tarps up as walls and use temporary banners for signage. Whereas people used to show up for themed free events, no one goes to the Mall for the enjoyment of browsing a dozen cheap booths and trashy stores full of the same Chinese junk they can get at Dollar General. So...less traffic. And less traffic means more of the businesses leave– so raise the rent of course! Because going back to the business model that was successful would just be crazy.

A millennia of fiction writing proves that ‘imagination’ is limitless. However, realism and pragmatic solutions are constrained by actual real-world boundaries. And remember that we’re talking about hypothetical uses for a privately owned, commercial property (that once hugely contributed to financial prosperity in the area). Unless one's “imagination” includes a fantasy world where tax revenue is not needed, and hinges on the expectation that the owners should just surrender their asset for “the public good”....those three ideas would need to be at least analogous in that they are profitable and produce more jobs and tax revenue. And in the interest of distinguishing mere ‘imagination’ from realistic scenarios.....each concept should include cited examples of anyone, anyplace actually achieving them for some realistic length of time. There are plenty of criticisms we can throw at the current Mall management for its deteriorating role in the local economy. Wanting it to be even less economically successful seems like the antithesis of a solution. It’s beyond asinine to suggest reducing the Mall’s business revenue when the local economy needs the opposite. We already have a surplus of underutilized publicly owned and completely vacant/derelict private properties that are currently less beneficial to the community than they should be.....even less so than the mall. The Arena, Erie Plaza, Hills Plaza. While it’s still probably an impractical idea to invest millions of dollars into re-inventing those places as public resources like community gardens and municipal centers....at least doing so would not eliminate existing business revenue potential.

If we really want to go all-in with extreme sci-fi, theoretical concepts......perhaps “hordes of tourists from the future” are indeed visiting on a regular basis, but their very presence creates a “new” timeline history that erases events (like their presence) from our consciousness in the new timeline? LOL Excellent point. There aren’t a lot of time travel movies that I don’t enjoy. The premise of time travel lends itself to so many infinite “original” storylines, that it’s one genre that doesn’t fall victim to the (same ol’ - same ol’) regurgitated plot formulas we see way too much of. From Planet of The Apes, Terminator, Back to the Future, Quantum Leap.....to Groundhog Day, and Bill & Ted's Excellent Adventure. The potential for creativity is endless. For instance.....I just watched The Tomorrow War on Prime, and found it to be a refreshingly original story. Apparently, it was released during the pandemic while I was dealing with real life drama.....but I can’t believe I hadn’t heard about it sooner.

For most things in my own life, I absolutely prefer a practical approach of reusing and repurposing. But million+ square foot commercial properties aren’t like old sinks that can be painted a new color and used for some completely different function, like a kitschy planter. It’s one thing to add non-structural walls to a relatively small building and create office space and/or studio apartments, etc. However, the larger the property that was built to accommodate a specific enterprise, the more impractical it is to “revamp” to another use. Yes, third world countries (that do not have the means to start over) are often forced to try things like turning abandoned factories into hospitals. But those “repurposed” facilities are not by choice. They are substandard and far inferior to their practical and functional counterparts that were built to serve as hospitals. Example: Over its 25 years of dormancy......it was painfully clear that the A&P Plant as it stood, would never have been practically suited for anything other than what it was built for. No amount of retrofitting and redecorating could have ever turned it into some other use that would be modern, operational, and profitable.....like a Walmart, a hotel, a medical center, a truck plaza, or an apartment complex, etc. Period. And the Mall, as it stands, will never be practicably suited for any of those uses either.

I didn't support the truck plaza at the Sperr Park location. But having one could be a good thing in the right spot. (And at the full expense of its developers- not IDA taxpayer funds). And honestly....flattening the mall for a Bucky's type plaza isn't necessarily a terrible idea.

This explains a lot. I attended a car show this summer. Outside, there was maybe 150 entrants parked by the vacant Sears location. But inside over 75% of the businesses were closed. Many empty....but a huge number of those that were still in business were not open for business.....5pm on a Friday. If there are older tenants forced to pay staff when the place in a tomb and they're paying higher rent?? Why TF wouldn't they be scrambling to get away? Yeah, that's not smart at all. It's a no-brainer that, as tenants flee, the other storefronts lose their value. So punitive rules and jacking up their rent to drive them out sooner is a ridiculous idea. I can't help but worry that the CCIDA will reward their shitty business practices. As far as I know, the hotel plan was scrapped before the IDA handed over any money..... but that doesn't mean they won't revisit their plan to shovel tax money at them.